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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Infidelity is abusive. AIBU?

131 replies

Infidelitydiscussion · 06/10/2021 15:07

Given that cheating on your spouse/partner often includes gaslighting, causing emotional trauma and putting them at risk of sexually transmitted diseases - personally I would consider cheating to be abusive.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Anon778833 · 07/10/2021 08:32

Yes it definitely is abusive.

People have a choice to cheat - it's not forced on them.

PersonaNonGarter · 07/10/2021 08:35

No - abuse is primarily intended to hurt the person being abused. That’s the point of it.

With infidelity, hurt is a by-product.

I also think that it’s important not to diminish the impact of abusers by putting them in the same category as cheaters.

apalledandshocked · 07/10/2021 08:35

@PicsInRed It isnt a matter of cheating/infidelity being fine, or people who cheat in relationships being nice people. As a general rule, its an incredibly shitty thing to do to someone. But, in itself, it isnt abusive - and watering that definition down to "anything that causes hurt to the other person in a relationship" is likely to backfire horribly.

Anon778833 · 07/10/2021 08:36

No - abuse is primarily intended to hurt the person being abused. That’s the point of it.

I don't agree. Many abusers don't know their behaviour is abusive but that doesn't absolve responsibility.

Since infidelity is grounds for divorce I think that clarifies it.

apalledandshocked · 07/10/2021 08:44

@Infidelitydiscussion

Abuse is not determined by intent, it is determined by impact. When a man chooses to embark on an affair which he knows will cause significant undue suffering to his existing family I fail to see how that can be anything but abusive.

I'm definitely interested in hearing others takes on it though.

Thats just not true though. Lets say my partner has a very deep and genuine emotional response to me speaking to my sister and best friends. He has abandonment issues from childhood and loves me so much that he can't share me. When my friend phones me to check if Im OK he is so overcome with insecurity he breaks my phone and pushes me accidentally hurting my knee. While this hurts me, it also upsets him. Later on, my limping or referring to the pain in my knee causes him further emotional trauma because he feels so bad about it. Or lets say on a different day my partner asks me for sex but I don't want to. This really hurts his feelings and frustrates him because he feels sad if he doesn't get sex. Also I have made him feel unwanted etc etc Am I the abusive one in that scenario? I am not saying that cheating is the same - personally I massively judge people who do and I know it can destroy familes. I have been cheated on. Its horrible. But if you define abuse as anything that causes suffering to the other person then you are weakening the definition of abuse so much - you might as well hand the keys to define abuse to abusers.
PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 08:46

Infidelity often occurs with abuse but not always. I don’t think infidelity is abuse in and if itself because there are many reasons for it, including escape from abuse. And as pp said, if it were abuse then it should be illegal to cheat- which is very extremist. Will we be putting “adulterers” in prison? Finally, on MN I have seen a very wide spectrum from mild to serious considered to be infidelity/cheating...if it is considered abuse, and therefore made illegal, there would be a legal definition of cheating and partners would no longer be able to set their own boundaries as to what constitutes cheating.

DrSbaitso · 07/10/2021 08:47

You can't criminalise being a hurtful dick.

Anon778833 · 07/10/2021 08:49

Or lets say on a different day my partner asks me for sex but I don't want to. This really hurts his feelings and frustrates him because he feels sad if he doesn't get sex. Also I have made him feel unwanted etc etc

How can you compare this with cheating? There will be conflict in any relationship.

Cheating is breaking a promise to someone that you are only with them. Then behind their back you decide to disregard that. The dishonesty is key.

apalledandshocked · 07/10/2021 08:53

@Itsnotover

Or lets say on a different day my partner asks me for sex but I don't want to. This really hurts his feelings and frustrates him because he feels sad if he doesn't get sex. Also I have made him feel unwanted etc etc

How can you compare this with cheating? There will be conflict in any relationship.

Cheating is breaking a promise to someone that you are only with them. Then behind their back you decide to disregard that. The dishonesty is key.

The point was that the poster was saying that abuse is defined by the impact on the other person, not the intent. I just think that that isn't actually the standard definition of abuse and trying to make it that is a very dangerous route to go down. If the question had been "infidelity is a shitty thing to do to someone" then the answer would be yes IMO. Cheating is hurtful, its cowardly, its dishonest - but its not automatically abusive. (Although yes, many abusive people are hurtful, cowardly, dishonest)
starrynight21 · 07/10/2021 08:56

It doesn't always involve gaslighting, or the risk of STD. Some might, but not all. Your OP paints the picture with a very broad brush.

Anon778833 · 07/10/2021 09:01

It's abusive to swear at someone. But it's not something you could be arrested for. It doesn't have to be criminal to be abuse.

DrSbaitso · 07/10/2021 09:02

@Itsnotover

Or lets say on a different day my partner asks me for sex but I don't want to. This really hurts his feelings and frustrates him because he feels sad if he doesn't get sex. Also I have made him feel unwanted etc etc

How can you compare this with cheating? There will be conflict in any relationship.

Cheating is breaking a promise to someone that you are only with them. Then behind their back you decide to disregard that. The dishonesty is key.

And being combative can arguably be seen as breaking the promise to love and cherish. Or refusing to have sex is breaking the promise to have and to hold. Or lying about the cost of your new dress is dishonesty.

I obviously don't condone cheating but many people on here seem to see it as the only way to break a marital promise, or the only way to ruin a marriage, or the only thing worthy of judgement. It's not.

LemonTT · 07/10/2021 09:02

Being hurt by someone does not mean they have abused you. It’s a probable outcome of all relationships. If you cannot cope with it happening then they are best avoided.

Teenagers gaslight and lie to their parents. They aren’t abusing them. They cause emotional trauma. Being a child doesn’t make you an abuser.

This thread is an eye opener in terms of just how much autonomy some women would throw away to avoid hurt. It’s always tempting to give our all into family and marriage. But we shouldn’t because it will destroy self esteem and stability.

I seriously doubt any men are debating this point or that they want infidelity to be a crime.

DrSbaitso · 07/10/2021 09:03

The point that poster was making was that if you class "emotional distress" as the definition of abuse, that's a dangerously wide umbrella that we're all going to come under.

Chiwi · 07/10/2021 09:05

Hurting someone is not abuse. We have all done things in our lives that have inadvertently hurt people, obviously to differing levels.
That is not what abuse is.
I've been cheated on twice, once I wasn't actually that bothered it was like "oh, you're right this relationship is over thank god!". He was a decent bloke he just didn't see a way out of a relationship that was dying.

The second time devastated me, mainly because of the gaslighting, lies and deceit. Also the first was a physical affair the second wasn't. It's not black and white.
In the second case it wasn't the cheating that was an abuse it was the manipulation of my feelings and the calculated actions taken to make me constantly doubt myself. It destroyed my self esteem.

Chiwi · 07/10/2021 09:05

@DrSbaitso couldn't agree with you more!

PlanDeRaccordement · 07/10/2021 09:09

@DrSbaitso

You can't criminalise being a hurtful dick.
But in many countries emotional abuse has been criminalised as a type of domestic violence, including the U.K.

www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-abuse-how-to-get-help#recognise-domestic-abuse

Moonmelodies · 07/10/2021 09:10

It's quite possible (and probably quite common) for people to have affairs that have no impact whatsoever on their spouses, if they are meticulously discreet.

JaceLancs · 07/10/2021 09:13

Ex DH affair and subsequent new relationship with OW and her DC ended up as emotionally abusive to my DC
DD in particular experienced severe trauma, developed an eating disorder and even as an adult has huge issues around confidence body image etc
She felt rejected personally despite anything I said - thought she was not thin enough, pretty enough, bright enough or generally good enough that her DF left her for another family with DDs

knittingaddict · 07/10/2021 09:14

@HarrietsChariot

It's abusive in the sense that all relationships are abusive, both partners abuse the other to a lesser or greater extent. I've never had a relationship (that lasted) where I didn't have my personal freedom limited to some extent, nor did I not limit the freedom of my partner. That's what a relationship is, a compromise between what's best for the two individuals and what's best for the couple combined.
That's not abuse and, if you think it is, you totally undermine what real abuse is. Have you confused compromise with abuse some how?
JudgementalCactus · 07/10/2021 09:21

@DrSbaitso "The idea that the state could fine or imprison me for having consensual sex is backward, regressive and downright dangerous, especially for women. The state must not own your body."

This x100!

Aderyn21 · 07/10/2021 09:38

While cheating itself isn't abusive, it's really difficult to cheat and not do things which are abusive. At the very least it means actively deceiving your partner and often involves gaslighting. Cheaters are removing the choice of their partner to be in a monogamous relationship, without their knowledge or consent. It exposes them to potential STD, even if the cheater is really careful. And that's before you get into all the emotional impact.
I don't think it's a fair arguement that if the spouse doesn't know then it's not abuse - when the spouse does find out it makes a complete mockery and lie of the life they believed they were living. And often, while the spouse doesn't know, the cheater's behaviour has changed within the marriage - their focus is elsewhere and it can leave the spouse second guessing everything and becoming really unhappy without knowing the source. It's cruel and cruelty is abusive.

I wouldn't make it a crime because as pp say, that gives the state too much control and bodily autonomy is really important. Removing that rarely goes well for women. What I would do, is to ensure that men who cheat don't get to also duck proper child/spousal support. Because too often women are left with distraught kids and in financial hardship while lover boy swans off to his new life. I'd put a stop to the ease with which men people are allowed to abandon their legal commitments. So at least women wouldn't be left in financial hardship. And I would compel the cheater to pay for the spouse and children's therapy.

LindaEllen · 07/10/2021 09:40

@Infidelitydiscussion

Oop, replace 'man' with woman wherever nessecary. I'm not trying to be sexist even though the vast majority of cheats are men Smile
I wouldn't agree that the 'vast majority of cheats are men'. Do you actually have a statistic for that comment? I know lots of women who cheat, though I do think there is more of a likelihood for women to have emotional affairs and men to actually go out and have sex.
StillWeRise · 07/10/2021 09:46

What people are missing here is that abuse is not simply about the effects/hurt it causes...abuse is motivated by a desire to have power over and control the other person. So having an affair might be abusive if for example the abusive person tells their partner 'see, you're so crap/ugly/useless I just had to go elsewhere for sex but make sure you still do my washing and cook my meals'- that's abuse.
A weak and pathetic man who hasn't the integrity to end one relationship before beginning another, and lies as a result- that's not abuse.

Aderyn21 · 07/10/2021 09:49

But it tips over into abuse if they start gaslighting