Extinction Rebellion co-founder says he would block an ambulance carrying a dying patient

[sst1234]

How can anyone support this bunch of nasty idiots who are willing to commit what can only be described as murder. How can anyone justify this? Imagine how you would feel it was one of you family members in that ambulance, this man would not hesitate to cause their death.

@katnyps
but unfortunately a significantly large proportion of the greenhouse effect is actually from the contrail and this is, I think, going to be just as much of an issue with hydrogen burning engines?

No, hydrogen engines only byproduct is fresh water. Which the planet is actually in desperate need of.

@Franklyfrost

Ecocide is genocide. He’s not doing himself any favours by saying it out loud but he’s right. The dying person in the ambulance has human drama. But the fact that the dying person could be one of the 50,000 deaths a year in the uk from air pollution (house of commons air audit 2010) isn’t as dramatic.

So if that was your child/parent/sibling in an ambulance being held up by one of his goons you would say what...."oh it's ok I don't mind the extra delay for my loved ones treatment, if they die they die as long as it saves 49999 other people their death will not matter"?

@brokenbiscuitsx

What I don’t understand… why are they essentially ‘attacking’ and disrupting members of the public and not big oil/fossil fuel corporations

You won’t want them to disrupt fossil fuel supplies in the depths of winter. That would kill people too.

Don’t know why big oil/fossil fuel companies are so hated when they keep you warm, grow your food, make your mass-produced stuff and take you farther than you could ever walk.

They are the foundation of civilisation.
Really.

That data holds and it's so frightening

This is the sort of statement that turns me right off. The data is often cherry-picked, exaggerated and is always presented as Fact.

I suggest listening to last week's More or Less (BBC Sounds) - it transpires Insulate Britain's claims are incorrect.

Well, colour me surprised

I hate these people more and more every day.

PlanDeRaccordement

Yes. Some action has been taken but there has also been a long history of minimising, denying and action that is counter to what is needed. Heathrow expansion was one such battle. There are countless others. The trouble is that taking action to minimise climate chaos means a decrease in quality of life and a loss of economic gain in some sectors and that’s not a popular thing to do.

PlanDeRaccordement
Yeah condensation trail = contrail = water - they mimic the effect of certain types of clouds and trap heat in the atmosphere and I think contribute to around a third of the greenhouse effect of aircraft engines (and would still be an issue with hydrogen engines)

6% are saying YABU? What do these protesters have to do as well as this? Bugger the cat?

There is protest and then there is this selfish virtue signalling twattery. If you think that blocking an ambulance is acceptable you're a cunt.

Amazing too that they all seem to live or can afford to commute to the most expensive city in the country...

PlanDeRaccordement

I have not been radicalised but thank you for your concern. I have a science background and whilst science doesn’t hold complete certainty there is now no doubt about the situation we are in. I have been aware of climate change as an issue since the 1980s. I sign petitions, I have changed my individual behaviour and been on the odd march but I don’t personally take part in direct action but can see that in the current situation and with the long history of little government action there is nothing else left to do if you care about the future of humanity.

• You won’t want them to disrupt fossil fuel supplies in the depths of winter. That would kill people too.

Don’t know why big oil/fossil fuel companies are so hated when they keep you warm, grow your food, make your mass-produced stuff and take you farther than you could ever walk.

They are the foundation of civilisation.
Really.*

I know. I don’t want them to target anyone.

I just wondered why they thinking stopping someone getting to work is going to help? Lots of corporations need to become more sustainable, without them on board nothing will change. No point solely targeting the public.

This makes me think they are trying to just cause disruption. Who are they lobbying or talking to who can make a difference? What is their campaign, just lie in the road and piss people off? 😂

I’ve reported my double post

@katnyps

hamstersarse what needs to be debated and if there was to be such a debate how would you engage, what platform would you expect to see it on and what would be required for you to take action as a result?

Step 1: Stop trying to raise awareness. Everyone already knows.

Step 2: Generate funding for research grants into green causes: e.g. reduce emissions building, reduce transmission loss of electricity over long distances.

Step 3: Identify sites for solar & wind farms. Crowd fund to have the built legally following all planning laws. Use the return on capital to help fund the next project.

Actually aim to achieve something themselves rather than cause emissions through stopping roads, trains and access to workplaces.

Think that would be a great start.

@katnyps

PlanDeRaccordement Yeah condensation trail = contrail = water - they mimic the effect of certain types of clouds and trap heat in the atmosphere and I think contribute to around a third of the greenhouse effect of aircraft engines (and would still be an issue with hydrogen engines)

Ah, but today’s airplane contrail is not just water vapour, that’s why it’s also called a chemtrail. For a contrail to form, at the 33,000ft most airplanes cruise at, it needs exhaust particles to trigger condensation. Exhaust particles include unburned fuel, VOCs, hydrocarbons, alcohol, ozone, soot, even engine wear particles. A NASA study showed that contrail formation was reduced by 50-70% due to fewer soot particles when using a 50% biofuel/50% jet fuel mix.

Yes, water vapor by itself is another greenhouse gas produced by the combustion of fuel, and although the radiative forcing (difference between the energy absorbed through the Earth’s atmosphere compared to the energy that is reflected back into space) is lower than that of CO2, it still contributes towards global warming.

Hydrogen combustion would produce about 2.6 times more water vapor than kerosene fuel. In a study about the climate change effects of hydrogen aircraft, Ponater et al. [7] evaluated the individual and accumulated effects of the emissions of a hydrogen-based flight to a kerosene-based flight. The study concluded that the positive effects of a zero-CO2 combustion, would offset the drawback of increased water vapor exhaust. Moreover, CO2 has a lifetime in the atmosphere of up to
100 years, while that of water vapor can go from a few days up to 1 year [4]. Regarding condensation trails, due to the absence in solid particles at the exhaust of the engine when burning hydrogen, ice crystals have no-where to nucleate, so the number of water crystals formed at the exhaust would decrease. Nevertheless, due to the increased amount of water vapor exhaust, the crystals that do nucleate, would have a larger size. The overall effect is expected to decrease the radiative forcing effect of contrails. The end result, according to the study would mean that the radiative forcing from aviation could be 20-30% lower by 2050 and 50-60% by 2100 if LH2 aircraft were introduced [7].
www.iata.org/contentassets/d13875e9ed784f75bac90f000760e998/fact_sheet7-hydrogen-fact-sheet_072020.pdf

findwen Electricity generators are already doing all that and with the financial, management, engineering and legal expertise to do it properly and efficiency so I'm not sure XR getting involved is going to help. They could be drumming up support for projects which don't currently have a funding subsidy program in place (carbon capture and storage, large scale pumped storage) but we're talking billions for those projects so it really needs the public to get behind, and then government to but the funding mechanisms in place - not really a crowd funding opportunity

@MephistophelesApprentice

They're a minority willing to use extreme, potentially lethal methods to force political change on a majority. They're terrorists who lack the conviction for full violence, so settle for a pathetic alternative that can cause just as much harm but let's them feel better about themselves.

What's worse is they're giving the bloody Tories the perfect excuse (and public support) to clamp down and reduce the right to legitimate protest. A blind, arrogant blunder that will have even worse consequences over time.

This. ^ They are scum, and so are insulate Britain, and they all need tasering or hosing down.. And nothing anyone says will make me say any different.

plan that's promising - and I think highlights that even in combustion engines producing CO2 it's the other byproducts (which you doing get from hydrogen) which help to nucleate the water vapour and create the contrails (isn't chem trails a term mostly used by conspiracy theorists rather than a term to describe exhaust gases??). It seems like, on balance, hydrogen would actually be a better alternative - though still better to fly less! There is a bit more up to date info in this recent UK fov publication too: <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/813342/non-CO2-effects-report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjZ18Wct7PzAhWIYMAKHRciBuAQFnoECDMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0PQ1ujLeNeG9RNdcC19uHV" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/813342/non-CO2-effects-report.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjZ18Wct7PzAhWIYMAKHRciBuAQFnoECDMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0PQ1ujLeNeG9RNdcC19uHV.

They could be drumming up support for projects which don't currently have a funding subsidy program in place (carbon capture and storage, large scale pumped storage) but we're talking billions for those projects so it really needs the public to get behind, and then government to but the funding mechanisms in place - not really a crowd funding opportunity

Of course they could, but where's the self-serving attention seeking drama in that?

@katnyps

findwen Electricity generators are already doing all that and with the financial, management, engineering and legal expertise to do it properly and efficiency so I'm not sure XR getting involved is going to help. They could be drumming up support for projects which don't currently have a funding subsidy program in place (carbon capture and storage, large scale pumped storage) but we're talking billions for those projects so it really needs the public to get behind, and then government to but the funding mechanisms in place - not really a crowd funding opportunity

Research grants for basic science are really hard to come by - crowd funding them is certainly in the realms of possibility and means of such groups. Research into reducing emissions from the building industry is certainly not well funded right now.

That said it seems we have an agreement on the rest of your comments, that XR could drum up support for existing projects rather than glue themselves to trains or block roads.

I really wish they would stop trying to raise awareness though - people know, they just don't care enough to do something simple like stop eating beef.

people know, they just don't care enough to do something simple like stop eating beef.

Well the xr and ib lot are the worst examples of this. Hardly any of them reducaterian, vegetarian or vegan. Yet again, it's someone else's problem to solve.

And actually, if anything, they are a terrible advert for reducing meat as people (wrongly) assume all these stupid attention seekers are vegan.

Yes, well I don't suppose he'd block the path of an ambulance carrying one of his close family members, would he?

Hypocritical bastard.

Blocking an ambalance that may or may not have a critically ill person inside who may live regardless of being blcoked or may die if left through. How is that any different to the people who say they wont test their kids for covid because they prob wont even have covid and even if they do most people are goin to fine.

I dont agree in blocking ambalance btw but its interesting as people put ither people life at risk all the time

I predict that unfortunately one or more of Insulate Britain are going to meet a sticky end soon - there are some hot headed people with anger issues out there, and some of them will be stuck in the queues of traffic held up by these 'protestors' - at some point one of them is going to lose it big time.

They could be drumming up support for projects which don't currently have a funding subsidy program in place

Yes, but compared to a nice little demo, some self-glueing and a bit of drumming and dancing that's boring

Unfortunately these idiots enjoy what they're doing - or at least the attention it brings - as we see from the "job done" smirks of those carted away. The pity of it is that some pay them the compliment of engaging and listening to their silliness instead of treating them as the criminals many are

In being controversial XR are opening up a dialogue. Look at how we are discussing it on mumsnet ! Making trouble is an effective tool for getting a subject into the news and prompting action. Look at the poll tax riots, they were extremely effective. In contrast look at the passive, well behaved March against Brexit where millions of protesters made not a jot of difference.

In being controversial XR are opening up a dialogue.

The only dialogue they've opened is how far the public will be willing to let the government go in the suppression of protest rights.