Extinction Rebellion co-founder says he would block an ambulance carrying a dying patient

[sst1234]

How can anyone support this bunch of nasty idiots who are willing to commit what can only be described as murder. How can anyone justify this? Imagine how you would feel it was one of you family members in that ambulance, this man would not hesitate to cause their death.

It’s actually made me wholly uninterested in any climate change activism, can’t be arsed.

I'm afraid you're kidding yourself, tenredthings, though it's probably what you want to believe

The "dialogue" is already there and has been for ages, but XR (while trying to latch onto it in their own interests) are merely alienating people and derailing what can otherwise be a worthwhile message

Look at how we are discussing it on mumsnet !

There's no such thing as bad publicity right?
Wrong.
Fyi, everyone already knows about climate change. Where have you been living, under a rock?

The only way xr and co could be considered a success is if they are government plants designed to curb right to protest.

Anyone else struck by how blindingly white both Extinction Rebellion and Insulate Britain are?

@ZoeCM

Oh yes I have! I think the term is 'luxury beliefs'.

People who have the luxury of thinking these things that don't really impact them directly, but they can use them to signal their moral superiority

Harry and Megan are the kings and queens of this.

They are a bunch of stupid cunts !

@hamstersarse yes! Exactly that

@LimitIsUp

I predict that unfortunately one or more of Insulate Britain are going to meet a sticky end soon - there are some hot headed people with anger issues out there, and some of them will be stuck in the queues of traffic held up by these 'protestors' - at some point one of them is going to lose it big time.

Surely it would be their own fault.

@tenredthings

In being controversial XR are opening up a dialogue. Look at how we are discussing it on mumsnet ! Making trouble is an effective tool for getting a subject into the news and prompting action. Look at the poll tax riots, they were extremely effective. In contrast look at the passive, well behaved March against Brexit where millions of protesters made not a jot of difference.

Being controversial to grab headlines is the tactics of the extremists. Used by the hard right, Trump et al to crowd out normal debate and lobbying.

The poll tax riots didn’t change the mind of Margaret Thatcher. The poll did. The March against Brexit should never be able to overturn a democratic mandate.

You propose a road map to despotism. I expect you don’t even know these are the tactics of the fascist.

The UK's biggest sector for emissions is transport (27%). Almost all of this is road transport with most of the remainder being aviation.

Electric cars won't solve this, most people will need to move to public transport. So XR should campaign for railway electrification, high speed rail (look what HS1 did to poach London-Paris passengers from the air), tramway expansion and conversion of urban bus routes to trolleybuses. Battery-electric vehicles then fill in the rural gaps.

Then let's look at the next biggest sector - energy generation (21%). We need nuclear on the scale they do it in France. There is no alternative way of getting large amounts of power without emitting CO2. So XR must campaign for nuclear power.

If XR are serious about reducing emissions, this needs to be their focus. Or is it more fun just sitting in a road doing yoga?

Lemon "You propose a road map to despotism. I expect you don’t even know these are the tactics of the fascist.*"
*
Direct action is also used by the oppressed. Our government is currently removing our right to peacefully protest, is that ok because they were democratically elected ?

I'm not condoning XR but I do admire the fact they are passionate enough to care. I personally think it's way too late to save our planet. Our 'civilisation' is a flawed model and there's way too much inertia and greed to make the changes needed.

I'm not condoning XR but I do admire the fact they are passionate enough to care. I personally think it's way too late to save our planet. Our 'civilisation' is a flawed model and there's way too much inertia and greed to make the changes needed

You need to live somewhere without civilisation so you can understand just how good you really have it and how bad … really bad … things can be.

Let’s start with not freezing in winter.

Direct action is also used by the oppressed. Our government is currently removing our right to peacefully protest,
Which is this and xr only achievement to date.

So proof they do more harm than good, even when putting blue light collateral aside.

@tenredthings

Lemon "You propose a road map to despotism. I expect you don’t even know these are the tactics of the fascist.*" * Direct action is also used by the oppressed. Our government is currently removing our right to peacefully protest, is that ok because they were democratically elected ?

I'm not condoning XR but I do admire the fact they are passionate enough to care. I personally think it's way too late to save our planet. Our 'civilisation' is a flawed model and there's way too much inertia and greed to make the changes needed.

XR want to override far more democratic rights. They refuse to acknowledge that the population as a whole has a say in government and laws. We have robust and effective democratic processes that need to be protected. They ignore any voice speaking against them. Even the overwhelming majority.

Their tactics are those of the fascists.

We are not even vaguely oppressed in this country. I speak from experience. If protesters can sit in front of ambulances day after day without any serious police intervention, you are very lucky. The police are actually stopping attacks on the protesters. You statement is a joke. The threat to rights comes from organisations and supporters who behave this way. Because of the threat they pose to others. It’s how it all starts.

Just because democratic processes don’t give you what you want when you want them doesn’t you have the moral right to put lives at risk. And then say that those lives are insignificant in terms of your greater good.

You are praising and justifying the tactics of the fascists. Who no doubt thought they were right and doing good.

I never heard of a fascist group that didn't think the means justify the ends. Surely you gotta question yourself when you and Voldemort both use for the greater good as your motto.

Whenever a person or group starts saying that they are doing things for the greater good.
Anyone’s first thought is Hot Fuzz.

In Insulate Britain’s case I am unsure what they want that wasn’t already in place up to March of this year.
Only withdrawn because very few people claimed their £5000.

XR want to override far more democratic rights. They refuse to acknowledge that the population as a whole has a say in government and laws. We have robust and effective democratic processes that need to be protected. They ignore any voice speaking against them. Even the overwhelming majority

It’s because they know they will have to press governments to use fascist, authoritarian tactics to make the kind of societal changes for carbon zero to happen. It won’t happen otherwise (thank fuck)

@Bythemillpond

Whenever a person or group starts saying that they are doing things for the greater good. Anyone’s first thought is Hot Fuzz.

In Insulate Britain’s case I am unsure what they want that wasn’t already in place up to March of this year.
Only withdrawn because very few people claimed their £5000.

I think this bears repeating since it hasn't been addressed by any of ib cheerleaders on here...

@UsedUpUsername

XR want to override far more democratic rights. They refuse to acknowledge that the population as a whole has a say in government and laws. We have robust and effective democratic processes that need to be protected. They ignore any voice speaking against them. Even the overwhelming majority

It’s because they know they will have to press governments to use fascist, authoritarian tactics to make the kind of societal changes for carbon zero to happen. It won’t happen otherwise (thank fuck)

It won’t happen because of the way they operate. It will happen if they get on board with legitimate protest and political lobbying.

They are not only achieving nothing they are reducing public support and therefore political influence. A classic case of were doing nothing would have achieved more.

Dogma and an inability to compromise or concede means they will cause more harm than good. It always does. It’s just fascism dressed up in a popular cause. Which was always the case with fascism and it attracts the same narcissists and fools.

@katnyps

Xenia the issue is it's not just us dying off a bit sooner. I'll also admit I'm selfish in that I don't think the human race is any less important than the rest of the animals / plants on this planet - I'd rather we find a way that as many of us (all of us) survive as possible!

This 100%.

It was obvious to me as a young kid 40 years ago... the idea that the "grown-ups" (politicians) still won't do anything decades later is beyond belief

@ LemonTT

Nonsense. By "legitimate protest" you simply mean sending emails and anything else that can be completely ignored.

All this has been known for decades - anyone with any intelligence knows it all, and yet nothing is done... but if we just ask nicely like Thunberg has been for years (and others for decades before her) then Boris will suddenly do something?

@LaetitiaASD
But it is not true that nothing has been or is being done.
Look up the Climate Change Progress Index which has tracked the actual progress of 57 nations plus the EU versus the climate laws, goals, and policies those governments have passed.

For example, progress of U.K. on the promises in the 2008 Climate Change Act. (There are dozens of other U.K. environmental preservation acts as well)

You will see that the U.K. is currently ranked #2 behind Sweden. The U.K. is doing better than 56 countries and the EU at fighting climate change.
ccpi.org/

@LaetitiaASD

@ LemonTT

Nonsense. By "legitimate protest" you simply mean sending emails and anything else that can be completely ignored.

All this has been known for decades - anyone with any intelligence knows it all, and yet nothing is done... but if we just ask nicely like Thunberg has been for years (and others for decades before her) then Boris will suddenly do something?

There are other forms of legitimate protest and lobbying. These are used by Greta Thunberg. They are not used by IB and ER. Your point is empty rhetoric.

Things have been achieved through democratic routes. But we don’t live in a dictatorship and change has to be through democratic processes supported by the electorate. Inevitably that involves compromise and concessions.

If you want to make change then expand your constituency and mandate. Don’t alienate it and then scream and bully your way to the outcome you want no matter the opposition from the people.

Go sit in a road in a country where the leaders don’t have to bow to voters. They won’t move you to the side of the road and look out for your safety. Because like you, those leaders think only their opinion matters and they make up lies and fakery to justify themselves. They will also stick you prison without a trial or beat you up. Remember this is your political approach not mine.

"If you want to save everyone do it nicely and don't upset anyone, even if it means nothing changes and we all die."

Helpful

If I was in an ambulance with a critically ill family member I would move him. He’d be too busy collecting his teeth to worry about blocking the way. Not the best way to handle it but it’s the one thing that would work.