Extinction Rebellion co-founder says he would block an ambulance carrying a dying patient

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How can anyone support this bunch of nasty idiots who are willing to commit what can only be described as murder. How can anyone justify this? Imagine how you would feel it was one of you family members in that ambulance, this man would not hesitate to cause their death.

The current direct action, at times may have crossed a line, I don’t know the facts, but direct action is now the only course of action - everything else has been tried and we are in an emergency situation.

What a load of nonsense. I'm sorry but the direct action of sitting in roads, targeting public transport and openly admitting you would let someone die rather than let an ambulance through is not going to do shit to help the climate issues our world is facing.

It's no more bloody useful than standing there with a petition. Pretending direct action is the only way left to tackle the problem is the biggest load of rubbish I've ever heard.

PlanDeRaccordement

This is the kind of debates we need, and I think are happening for the most part.
Regarding electric charging points, these are relatively cheap and easy to retrofit so for new housing developments, whilst a good idea, not a massive issue if retrofitted.
The Maersk example sounds like a good one! I'm no expert on the shipping industry but it sounds like a step in the right direction.
As for biofuels - I think this is a bit of a grab by a fossil fuel company and, from what I understand, pretty awful for the environment from a biodiversity perspective (e.g. driving the palm oil boom).
As for zero carbon planes, it sounds good, but unfortunately a significantly large proportion of the greenhouse effect is actually from the contrail and this is, I think, going to be just as much of an issue with hydrogen burning engines?

[quote PurpleParrotfish]Thought so - Extinction Rebellion have put out a statement saying Roger Hallam does not speak for them and is not in any way a ‘leader’ of XR. extinctionrebellion.uk/2021/10/05/5th-october-statement/[/quote]
How nice to them to kindly let emergency vehicles through!

How unfortunate for the people waiting for those vehicles, that the significant delay caused in the protest and needing to be ' escorted through', and who suffer death or disability as a result of the delay.

They are fucking emergency vehicles, you idiots. They are blue lighted as they can't afford ANY delay - people's lives depend on it.

What @PlanDeRaccordement says is interesting and an example of how people are not doing nothing about climate change, as much as alarmists like marbles would like you to believe.

The climate change crisis is evidenced as being tackled by people working on alternatives etc. Groups like ib have no plan, long or short term but rely on emotive abstract idealism.

@JumperandJacket

One of the problems with XR is that they don't believe in hierarchical structures so any idiot can claim to speak for them.

I feel I'm in a minority on here as I do think that some targeted disruption is justifiable if it gets people to focus on climate change. Simply signing petitions and asking people nicely is achieving feck all. However, there's a balance to be struck as once you start alienating the general public to this extent it's counter-productive.

It's worth remembering that the Sufragettes weren't generally popular either and that people would point to the disruption they caused as evidence that women shouldn't have the vote. Being amenable doesn't change the world.

Can you evidence that direct action and violence brought about sufferage?

The Sufferage Act was passed in 1918. The Sufferagettes stopped direct action and violence in 1914. Instead they worked with the political establishment as part of the war effort and widened their political base and support.

History sort of puts a hole in argument.

Democracy is slow and imperfect but democracy is best system we have. Use it, don’t abuse it because the alternatives are never worth it and won’t save the world.

@MephistophelesApprentice

Most people are SELFISH and would prioritize their kid over humanity. We need people willing to risk being beaten to a pulp or going to prison; people willing to make huge self-sacrifices for the greater good.

If they actually believed in this, they'd be bombing refineries, power stations, picking up guns and putting their lives on the line. But no: they only want other people too for for their beliefs, while they get the protections of the justice system.

I'd still despise them for their violent crimes, but at least I'd believe they possessed genuine conviction in their beliefs. I certainly don't believe it of these privileged, performative wankers.

Yes! Or if they had gone down to the Conservative Party Conference and glued themselves or otherwise generally blocked the access roads to that, or heckled the speakers, or abseiled down the outside of the building with banners, that would be one thing - and would probably get way more people on side.

"Privileged, performative wankers" is exactly the phrase I was looking for. Sitting in the middle of the road looking smug and looking forward to seeing themselves in the local paper is not convincing anyone. If they just thought a little bit more about it and weren't so bothered about patting each other on the back about how "radical" they are being, they could get so much more done. How can you seriously stand there looking sadly at a woman who is pleading with you to let her get to her ill mother and not think "Hold on, I wonder if this is the right way to go about this?" Thick as mince as well as everything else.

@katnyps

So to pose the question a different way - what action WOULD the majority support to raise awareness and stimulate action on climate change?

I'm quite happy with whoever was blockading Farnborough. I bet that the owners of many of those private jets have a larger footprint in a week than I have in a year.

@JumperandJacket

One of the problems with XR is that they don't believe in hierarchical structures so any idiot can claim to speak for them.

I feel I'm in a minority on here as I do think that some targeted disruption is justifiable if it gets people to focus on climate change. Simply signing petitions and asking people nicely is achieving feck all. However, there's a balance to be struck as once you start alienating the general public to this extent it's counter-productive.

It's worth remembering that the Sufragettes weren't generally popular either and that people would point to the disruption they caused as evidence that women shouldn't have the vote. Being amenable doesn't change the world.

And the suffragettes didn't get women the vote as a result, the Kaiser did that. Plenty of evidence that women would have had the vote sooner if it hadn't been for the extreme tactics (letter bombs etc.)

And the sad thing is when the experts, scientists, government, people in industry solve the problems causing climate change terrorist groups like this will claim the credit, when I'm reality they do zero practical towards the cause.

If they actually believed in this, they'd be bombing refineries, power stations, picking up guns and putting their lives on the line. But no: they only want other people too for for their beliefs, while they get the protections of the justice system. I'd still despise them for their violent crimes, but at least I'd believe they possessed genuine conviction in their beliefs. I certainly don't believe it of these privileged, performative wankers

"Privileged, performative wankers" is exactly the phrase I was looking for. Sitting in the middle of the road looking smug and looking forward to seeing themselves in the local paper is not convincing anyone. If they just thought a little bit more about it and weren't so bothered about patting each other on the back about how "radical" they are being, they could get so much more done. How can you seriously stand there looking sadly at a woman who is pleading with you to let her get to her ill mother and not think "Hold on, I wonder if this is the right way to go about this?" Thick as mince as well as everything else

All of this.

@katnyps

Jumper yeah I know what you mean. I struggle to see how any of us can really be persuaded to take action though - what would actually get people to change their behaviour? The climate debate is all about making it someone else's problem "no point me doing anything when corporations aren't" and "well I didn't have any kids so I can go on long haul holidays 3 times a year and drive the 5 minutes to the shops every day in my petrol car"

Just like XR and IB are all about someone else doing something. Many of the leaders of XR are the very people who drive cars on even the shortest journey and take multiple flights a year. Apparently pollution is all the government's fault, the whole premise of XR is not blaming individuals, even though the whole problem with climate change is a collection of individual actions.

@Lostmarbles2021

not caring about the environment is no longer an option

Of course it is. It's not a good option, but the reality of the human race is than if the sofa we're sitting on is burning, we'll won't do anything about it until our own hair is actually on fire.

How are the methods currently being employed going to convince our leaders to take drastic action?

The protestors need to first find a way to convince the public, and then the public will be willing to organise a mass mass mass protest that the leaders will have to respond to, or risk a much more immediate collapse of society than that offered by climate problems.

Current protest methods are alienating people who agree with their cause, and having no positive impact on any leaders. How could they?

@katnyps

hamstersarse what needs to be debated and if there was to be such a debate how would you engage, what platform would you expect to see it on and what would be required for you to take action as a result?

You imply there is no debate worth having here

As pp said, that is disingenuous. The data is nowhere near Fact.

It really feels like IB are going to end up with their own Jill Phipps incident, except deliberately this time.

hamstersarse apologies, that wasn't what I was trying to imply. I think the debate is well worth it - though you can probably guess I would be on the side of the latest IPCC data

They have already done that. There was an
ambulance carrying a lady who had a stroke. They were held up by these smug idiots. The story upset me because time is of the essence in these cases.My own mother had a massive stroke. The ambulance came in record time and went up the road with lights flashing . The hospital were waiting for her and whisked her away for scans.
We were dreading going up to see her next morning. She had been unable to speak or move. But when we arrived, she was sitting up in bed, smiling and chatting. 'can you move, mum?' 'course I can' she said.
She had been given a clot-buster. It was a new treatment. The consultant was thrilled with such a good outcome. He told us there was a window of time when the clot-buster could be administered
I remembered that when I heard about the ambulance being blocked. The patient was paralysed. If the ambulance had got through in time, maybe she wouldn't be.
How dare these Insulate Britain people disregard
the rest of us. Why aren't they being arrested? Why aren't they in jail where they can't hurt other people.

@Confrontayshunme

I think the justification is that the imminent threat to life of millions of the poor and children justify the present inconvenience (and I agree in theory), but trotting out the usual "This isn't the right way to go about it." is actually warranted here.

Agree.

TheFoundations

Yes. But all of that has been done. I remember a massive protest March in London a few years ago for that very reason. The fact is lots of us don’t want to give up our comfortable lifestyles and won’t until we are made to. For the good of humanity governments need to put in policy and legislation to force the people into action. They haven’t. For decades. Decades!! Direct action is literally all that’s left. There is a long tradition of this in history. There were always those whose direct action was a step too far in many people’s eyes. Nevertheless we need radical and direct action.

@Cabinfever10

Well having read the bs response from extinction rebellion all 8 can say is do they honestly expect people to believe them when we have seen the way they behave and heard their founders words. Tbh most of us who are old enough to remember the animal rights extremists and the harm that their behaviour (bombs, fire bombs etc) did to the cause are just waiting on XR destroying themselves in the same way

I definitely see your point, but I hope we don’t need to wait for them to destroy themselves. They’ve been horrible, selfish bastards from the very first day. Most people don’t seem to know Extinction Rebellion’s first action: it was an “occupation.” Must have been at a government office or some corporation, right? No. It was Greenpeace. Well, then was it because Greenpeace was doing something horrible and corrupt? No again. It was so they could blackmail Greenpeace into giving them access to Greenpeace’s resources! Greenpeace spends effort, goodwill, research, and their own ethics to develop a huge mailing list and other resources and Extinction Rebellion does a sit-in until Greenpeace will agree to send an email introducing them and their cause to everyone on the mailing list! They wanted everything Greenpeace had spent decades building for themselves, in a few hours, for free. It’s disgusting, and it’s indicative of how they’ve operated the whole time. Their first “occupation” was to demand another NGO’s hard-earned resources built by their own donors. So why the hell does anyone ever trust Extinction Rebellion again? And I don’t even support Greenpeace! And Greenpeace sure as fuck dont support Extinction Rebellion, no surprise, as an NGO that actually meets with governments, makes presentations and suggestions about climate change, not just blows at least half their yearly budget on a six-day protest festival.

Source re: their Greenpeace blackmail:
www.commondreams.org/views/2018/10/19/climate-activists-occupy-greenpeace-uk-headquarters-wait-cant-be-right

Source on Extinction Rebellion blowing half its budget for a short protest:
m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/extinction-rebellion-protests-funding_uk_5da09183e4b02c9da0495bba

Oh and if you want to know the exact money? Extinction Rebellion made £3.1 million 2019-2020 and spent it all on protests. Guess that wouldn’t have bought any factories that could have been closed down in China (where the pollution is) or insulated any homes (since they’re still ACTUALLY supporting Insulate Britain with their resources, as shown in the Critic article):
Companies House for Extinction Rebellion dba “Compassion Revolution Limited” showing they only gathered £3.1 million from 2019-2020:
s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-live.ch.gov.uk/docs/zpsnniSW9fKA2PzNLHbT2vN_sp4N6kSX4e1zJY-PMA8/application-pdf?

Makes you wonder: could the £3.1 million Extinction Rebellion earned in a single year not save a SINGLE human life? I mean, really? In fact, with the way both organizations are going - stopping insulators from reaching appointments (and there may not be a second chance before winter), both Extinction Rebellion and Insulate Britain stopping people from reaching important hospital appointments - they will have spent £3.1 million and actually killed a few people. If people don’t think that’s the height of self-centred, entitled arseholes, I honestly don’t know what is.

What I don’t understand… why are they essentially ‘attacking’ and disrupting members of the public and not big oil/fossil fuel corporations

@brokenbiscuitsx

What I don’t understand… why are they essentially ‘attacking’ and disrupting members of the public and not big oil/fossil fuel corporations

I take it you are looking for an answer a bit more detailed than 'because they're fucking knobs!'?

@katnyps apart from if you are on qualifying benefits the energy companies will insulate your house and replace your boiler - so what are they even protesting about?

www.which.co.uk/reviews/home-grants/article/home-grants/free-loft-insulation-and-free-boilers-from-energy-suppliers-a85i81F3XKdd#npower-free-or-subsidised-insulation-and-boilers

@Lostmarbles2021
For DECADES there has been peaceful, polite, measured and responsible campaigning but governments have not listened. Instead, they have tied themselves closely to the very industries that cause the most harm.

This is a complete and utter lie. Governments have listened and are making progress against climate change. Look up the Climate Change Performance Index which is run by an independent nongovernmental charity that tracks the actual performance of 57 countries and the EU since 2005.

On it, you will see that the U.K. is currently ranked second for the most progress.

@BelleOfTheProvince

And the sad thing is when the experts, scientists, government, people in industry solve the problems causing climate change terrorist groups like this will claim the credit, when I'm reality they do zero practical towards the cause.

Absolutely, just like the suffragettes claimed credits for what the suffragists accomplished.

@Lostmarbles2021
For the good of humanity governments need to put in policy and legislation to force the people into action. They haven’t. For decades. Decades!! Direct action is literally all that’s left.

No that is eco-terrorist propaganda you have been fed in order to convince you to do whatever “direct actions” the leaders of XR or IB demand. You have been radicalised.