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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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2nd Met Police officer has been charged with rape

467 replies

Rinoachicken · 03/10/2021 23:04

He worked in the same dept as WC.

It’s being very widely reported, except by the BBC.

AIBU to be sickened and wonder WHY the BBC are not reporting this?

Link: www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/oct/03/metropolitan-police-officer-charged-rape-hertfordshire?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

OP posts:
Dazedandconfused28 · 04/10/2021 08:57

I heard about it via a BBC source last night before I went to bed, so pre 10pm

BellaElla99 · 04/10/2021 08:59

No one has taken it seriously when black people have been saying it for years, when black people have voiced fear for their safety. There are always excuses. ‘But the police are good at their job.’ ‘But it’s only a small minority’ ‘Our police aren’t like police in America’. Now, everyone is scared of the police and want to take it seriously? And they say racism doesn’t exist in the UK. What a joke.

Felix125 · 04/10/2021 09:00

@Hdhdjejdj

The fact he’s been arrested and charged at the same time speaks volumes. They had the evidence and have sat on it. Absolutely disgusting.
He'll have been arrested last year - it takes ages for forensics to come back and then ages for CPS to return a decision. Rape's have to go through CPS for a charging decision, so this case will have started before Sarah was murdered.

Its not a case that he has suddenly been arrested and charged.

vivainsomnia · 04/10/2021 09:00

Rape cases getting to court where the accused was completely innocent rarely happen
Even if you are a judge and barrister with experience to be able to make such claim, even you acknowledge that it DOES happen.

All good to ignore that it does until it's your husband or son who is the victim.

Going back to the dark ages is going back to people condemning anyone accused of a crime because of mass political and societal movements before the person is judged by the legal system.

CandyLeBonBon · 04/10/2021 09:01

@StopGo to be fair there are reports of many more than just this man who have engaged in undesirable behaviour, so that comment wasn't wrong!

MarshmallowSwede · 04/10/2021 09:04

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Ireolu · 04/10/2021 09:07

20 seconds on BBC London news this morning

AlternativePerspective · 04/10/2021 09:07

@ MarshmallowSwede given your post is in contempt of court as this man hasn’t yet been tried, you may want to rethink making such statements.

CandyLeBonBon · 04/10/2021 09:08

@vivainsomnia

Rape cases getting to court where the accused was completely innocent rarely happen Even if you are a judge and barrister with experience to be able to make such claim, even you acknowledge that it DOES happen.

All good to ignore that it does until it's your husband or son who is the victim.

Going back to the dark ages is going back to people condemning anyone accused of a crime because of mass political and societal movements before the person is judged by the legal system.

From the Kavanaugh hearings:

“It seems to be extremely rare for anyone to be wrongfully convicted as a result of a false accusation of rape,” she says. “I was only able to find 52 cases in 25 years where a conviction was later overturned after a wrongful conviction based on false rape allegations. In the same period, there were 790 cases where people were found to be wrongfully convicted of murder.” For what it’s worth, 790 divided by 52 is 15.2, meaning that by Newman’s data, you were 15 times likelier in that 25-year period to be wrongfully convicted of murder than of rape.

And, let’s keep in mind, rape allegations resulting in convictions are already vanishingly rare: <a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20100408125722/www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs05/hors293.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Newman cites a study that found that, of 216 assault complaints classified as false, only six led to arrest, and only two led to actual charges. (And even then, they were eventually deemed false.)

It's Funny how rape is the only crime where people question the veracity of the accuser in this way.

AlternativePerspective · 04/10/2021 09:09

20 seconds on BBC London news this morning what do you want them to say?

As he’s been charged the media are prohibited from reporting anything more than the fact he has been arrested and his name if it’s been made public. Nothing else.

Doing so is breaking the law and is contempt of court. As is this thread and will likely have to be deleted.

Naunet · 04/10/2021 09:12

@vivainsomnia

Rape cases getting to court where the accused was completely innocent rarely happen Even if you are a judge and barrister with experience to be able to make such claim, even you acknowledge that it DOES happen.

All good to ignore that it does until it's your husband or son who is the victim.

Going back to the dark ages is going back to people condemning anyone accused of a crime because of mass political and societal movements before the person is judged by the legal system.

You know what also happened in the dark ages? Rape wasn’t illegal. With convictions rates as low as they are, it’s practically legal now. Do you have any concern about that, or are you purely focused on the absolutely tiny minority of men who are falsely accused?
vivainsomnia · 04/10/2021 09:15

Do you have any concern about that, or are you purely focused on the absolutely tiny minority of men who are falsely accused?
I do have a concern about that. I don't focus on those who are falsely accused.

I just don't assume someone is guilty until they are proven to be so. Is it so hard to understand?

ThatSunnyCorner · 04/10/2021 09:19

@DesertSky

Whilst I agree that big changes need to be made in the Police force and 100% this shocking behaviour must NOT be tolerated, let’s not forget that the Police force were quick to convict one of their own Officers. The Court Judge who gave his verdict quotes “This has been the most impressive police investigation that I have encountered in the 30 years I have been sitting as a part-time and full-time judge. The speed with which the evidence leading to the arrest of the defendant was secured is highly notable, as has been the painstaking reconstruction of these events using electronic material along with more old-fashioned methods of policing. It cannot be suggested in my view that the Metropolitan Police, even for a moment, attempted to close ranks to protect one of their own. Instead, remorselessly, efficiently and impartially the investigating officers followed all the available leads, resulting in an overwhelming case against the accused. Meriting particular mention are Detective Chief Inspector Catherine Goodwin, Detective Kim Martin and Acting Detective Inspector Lee Tullett. Mr Tullett has been a key figure in the investigation and the preparation of this case, going well beyond what could properly be expected of any police officer, and his role deserves high commendation.”

This is not me defending the Police, but saying if we loose all trust entirely how can the good and decent Officers do their job?
I wholeheartedly agree that actions have to be taken with zero tolerance for sexual offences or misogyny in all work environments, especially in the Police whom are in the position to protect the public.

It's their job to prepare evidence for cases to be taken to court. And they did that will in this case. But that doesn't excuse institutionalised misogyny within the police.
mustlovegin · 04/10/2021 09:19

One of the most horrible dads at the school gates was a police officer. He was openly racist

Let's face it, many (perhaps most?) of the white men who become police officers do so for the power trip. Power over minorities, power over young people, power over women. It's all coming out in the wash now

These are police bashing, racist, irrational stereotyping comments. Probably coming from the 'defund the police' activists.

A thread pops up every day on this and it's irritating. If a specific officer commits an offence, they should be judged and charged as appropriate. I understand people may be angry. But tarring all the force who do so much every day to protect the public with the same brush is unfair and counterproductive. Do you think women will be safer without police on the streets? It's ridiculous.

Naunet · 04/10/2021 09:20

@vivainsomnia

Do you have any concern about that, or are you purely focused on the absolutely tiny minority of men who are falsely accused? I do have a concern about that. I don't focus on those who are falsely accused.

I just don't assume someone is guilty until they are proven to be so. Is it so hard to understand?

You spoke about “going back to the dark ages” because some women here think it’s safe to say he’s guilty, yet made no comment on how few rapes end in conviction, and how damaging that is. Your concern seems to be primarily for men. You might be better off on an MRA site.
CBroads · 04/10/2021 09:20

@YerAWizardHarry

There are around 33,000 met police officers. 0.01%. My son has already been bullied out of a school for having police officer parents ffs
From what's been reported so far alot more people within the police knew about the WhatsApp group all of these officers were in, the head of The Met knew and they turned a blind eye to it. Are you still expecting to be respected and trusted by the public ? No offence but you need to wake up and realise the public act the way they do towards officers because they're scared of you and because of the blatant misuse of power that's been demonstrated over the past couple of years or so.
Hdhdjejdj · 04/10/2021 09:21

@Felix125 He was arrested on the 2nd October. He was charged on the 3rd October. Check your facts.

MarshmallowSwede · 04/10/2021 09:22

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vivainsomnia · 04/10/2021 09:28

You spoke about “going back to the dark ages” because some women here think it’s safe to say he’s guilty, yet made no comment on how few rapes end in conviction, and how damaging that is
Oh so it's only acceptable to raise concern about a concerning attitude taken by some if I also list the other concerns?

I don't need to comment on the latter to justify my stance about the former.

vivainsomnia · 04/10/2021 09:30

No offence but you need to wake up and realise the public act the way they do towards officers because they're scared of you
I think it is fair to say a sub-section of the public are scared. Not all public is, not all women. Those who are not as just not as vocal about it.

SachaStark2 · 04/10/2021 09:30

The very idea of speaking about men being victims is highly distasteful at the moment.

Have some sensitivity, and centre women in the conversation.

Men are not the victims.

AlternativePerspective · 04/10/2021 09:32

@ MarshmallowSwede go and read up on contempt of court. Speculating or assuming someone’s guilt on a public platform or social media is contempt of court.

Rinoachicken · 04/10/2021 09:34

A thread pops up every day on this and it's irritating.

So sorry you find it irritating.

Women are being harassed, stalked, assaulted, raped everyday. It should be front page news every time a woman is raped or murdered. But is is so common it’s no longer even newsworthy except for a select few cases.

Apparently that’s not ‘irritating’ enough for anyone to actually give a shit about.

OP posts:
RIPIgglePiggle · 04/10/2021 09:35

[quote Whattheflecker]@RIPigglePiggle you've fundamentally missed the point that men like that are attracted to those roles precisely because of the power and opportunity it gives them.

Every other sector which has had its abuse scandal: NHS after Harold Shipman, Schools after Jessica Wells and Holly Chapman, Sports clubs after Barry Bennell have undergone wholescale review aimed at preventing it happening again. The NHS completely changed the approach to palliative care after Shipman. Now that's not to say there won't be any risks but not one of them just said 'nothing for us to do he was just a bad apple' as so many police seem to be saying.

@turnitonagain 💯 agree. First they came for...[/quote]
I’ve worked investigating sexual offences for years so I do have some idea of what I’m talking about. I would say that about all the people I’m talking about. Their roles gave them power and access to victims. In the same way domestic sexual assault is often more about power than anything else. Predators always look for power and opportunity be that through work, volunteering or romantic/family relationships.

The NHS hasn’t undergone under any significant changes after the nurse that murdered patients, nor after the midwife who murdered babies. Nor is there any significant review or change after the many many abuse cases I deal with involving professionals. The cases you name are the ones you remember because of the changes made. The immediate circumstances are reviewed but usually there’s no significant ‘shake up’ of the profession. It depends on the circumstances. For example the vetting issues in the Couzens case been human error or is there an issue that’s been replicated across all 43 forces.

I suppose the difference with policing is the wider issues with not only the prevalence of offences against women but also the poor response of the criminal justice system from reporting through to trial.

There is an investigation being carried out by the IOPC into how Couzens was able to get through vetting and what colleagues suspected about his behaviour. We are subject to regular reviews by HMIC on violence against women. I have posted on other threads my views on how this could be improved (IMO). I don’t think there is necessarily a lack of accountability, but it could be more effective. Sadly I think the government has very little grasp of policing or the issues here hence the nonsense being spouted by Kit Malthouse and Priti Patel at the minute.

vivainsomnia · 04/10/2021 09:36

Men are not the victims
Why oh why everything has to be about generalisations? All women, all men, all police officers.

Can we just go back to judging individual for their actions rather labelling anyone who falls under the same category than the guilty party?

This is not about defending men, it's about defending anyone regardless of their characteristics until proven guilty. That's all, nothing more.

Sorry if it doesn't fit within the agenda of the many posters here.

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