to ask if you would carry?

[bellaweir]

After what's happened with Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa this past week I was chatting to my mum about being safe outside.

We ended up down a rabbit hole of American women carrying guns/pepper spray/tasers for their own safety and I wanted a wider opinion on it.

If it were legal in the uk to carry something for your own protection would you?

To add, I wouldn’t condone the carrying of guns.

@pictish

I’d mace an attacker, no hesitating. I run alone in the dark (early morning) and would actually love to be able to use something to defend myself against a fucker.

But anybody who would grab you while running in the dark will already have a head start. They’re expecting you, you aren’t expecting them. And then if mace is legal they’ll probably have brought some with them and will mace you before you’ve even fumbled the mace out of your bag/pocket.

I do see why someone would want it, to make you feel a bit safer, but ultimately it just comes down to the same old tired fight, where the bigger/stronger person is likely to win.

@EmmaGrundyForPM

No, I wouldn't and I wouldn't want to live I'm a society that allowed people to carry weapons.

Very sadly, even if Sarah had had pepper spray on her, it wouldn't have helped her. She was "arrested" and handcuffed by someone posing as a police officer. She presumably didn't realise the truth until it was too late.

He wasn't posing as a police officer he was a police officer- with a warrant card.

No.

Don’t carry anything as a ‘self defence weapon’ based the theory that it’s legal for self defence.

It is correct that it is legal for you to defend yourself, and also that you can use whatever you have to hand.

Guns (and tasers etc)- clearly illegal
Pepper spray - illegal, but there are legal alternative irritants for use against people or dogs. Make sure you buy from somewhere legitimate to ensure that what you get is actually UK legal, and ‘anti dog spray’ could be the best option especially for runners etc - if you were attacked by a person and defended yourself then it will work just as well
Knives - definitely don’t. There are ‘legal’ situations to carry knives but it’s not as simple as saying “under 3”’ is legal - if it’s in your bag for self defence then it’s an offensive weapon.
Think about what you would do with jt anyway - you only manage to cut and enrage the attacker more
(Note that I also knew someone who had repeatedly driven under driving bans, on one stop the police fully searched his car to get as much as possible on him. He had numerous knives of varying sizes in his car, but had valid reasons due to his job. He had a fruit knife in his glovebox which they prosecuted him for - not for his work, and they treated it as an offensive weapon that was close to hand
They knew he wasn’t carrying as a weapon but they were seeking things that he would take notice of to try and stop him driving when banned)

Don’t buy any ‘self defence key rings’. These items are illegal because they are a weapon (even if the seller try’s to tell you it’s legal), but if you know how to use them then you can use a key, pen etc

If you may use keys to jab or scratch an attacker then try to keep your car keys or house keys separate if they get dropped or taken off you then can you escape?
If you have parked to go on a run, then you can’t get in your car if you’ve dropped your car key. If you are jogging in the street and drop your house key then you can’t open the door
A spare set of random keys can happily be dropped (but don’t say that you were carrying just random keys)
Hairsprays, body sprays etc, hair brushes etc are perfect - they are normal things that you could have in a bag.
Even if it came down to it a runners plastic bottle that can be squeezed to squirt out your water in their face is better than nothing - it’s a sudden thing that can give you a moment of time to run away.

Get some form of self defence training
Dont think that kicking in the balls will do any good - it does hurt, but they could dodge or you could miss, and it depends on how good a kick you do. You could also get your leg or foot grabbed putting you at a disadvantage
Go for shins, stamping on feet depending on footwear, scratching faces etc
Don’t try to be a super ninja fighter - hit hard & fast, be loud and get away

But Sarah Everard would not have been safer if she had had weapons; she thought she was being arrested by a policeman. Would you shoot a policeman arresting you?

As a pp said, none of this would have helped Sarah. You can hardly mace a police officer trying to arrest you.

Pepper spray yes probably

When I was early 20s I got into a cab in a taxi rank. Well it wasn’t a cab and the guy’s friend jumped in half way down the road. Let’s say I was lucky to escape. I heard their plans and luckily wasn’t too drunk ( as they assumed I was) after that, my boyfriend bought me pepper spray. I did feel better carrying it. I was absolutely defenceless in that taxi. It provides the element of surprise. Yes, it could be used on you but it’s strong stuff and if you get the attacker they won’t be able to do much. I would buy it for my dd.

@diddl. you're right, my comment was badly worded.

Guns? Probably not as I believe thet are harder to use than American TV shows would have us believe and can be used at a distance. I don't want guns to be in common use here. But a taser? Yep. I would use one on an attacker without compunction (and hope the fucker had a heart condition)
But then, I'm a vicious sod.

I'm thinking of getting one of these

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HS5569K?tag=spycom00-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1&language=enUS&asccsource=amp&asccampaign=amp&asccrefurl=spy.com/articles/gear/travel-gear/best-self-defense-keychains-pepper-sprays-personal-alarms-156430/

@Tealightsandd

Remember that whilst what happened was utterly awful, it's relatively rare.

70% of murdered women are killed at home.

I can see the reason why somebody might feel safer having something on them (not a gun). When I was younger several friends kept hairspray in their bags as a sort of DIY pepper spray.

Why not look into self defense classes? It's a really good way of boosting confidence around safety.

Yeah that may be true but it would have been nice to have a defense and a head start against rape too. Women may not be dead but thinking about it day in day out for years is pretty shit too

Remember if women are allowed to carry tasers, pepper spray etc then so are men.

How much easier would it be for a man to overpower a woman if he could taser her first?

Speak to any serving officer and they are as disgusted at his actions as any other person.

While I think this is undoubtedly true the police services do need to look at themselves much more critically. While his actions were extreme he was also part of a culture where misogyny is rife. He was in a whatsapp group which was full of misogynistic, racist and homophobic comments. His fellow officers in that group are only now being investigated and not all have been suspended (it's the Met officers who have not been suspended).

A weapon would have helped her, she was cuffed by what she thought was an off doing his job. 😢

When I lived in a very dodgy area abroad, I carried a small knife in my hand. It was a well known area and I would have used the knife had I felt threatened.

I just found out a male neighbour was attacked in a field behind my house. I’ve live here all my life and now I feel that I want to carry protection when i walk my dog. My DH said well that’s an offence. My answer was you don’t understand, you are not a woman

My dh and I were out with kids for a W
Park walk and it was getting dark, mostly empty. A man jogged past. I said it must be nice to be able to go jogging like that, whenever/wherever. I then had to explain women just can’t make that choice. Men just don’t understand.

No I wouldn’t.

When I panic my brain shuts down. I froze when I was raped; I froze when I nearly choked.

It would be a waste of time for me personally.

I was at University in the NW in the Ripper years and it was standard practice to carry rape alarms.

[quote stevalnamechanger]I'm thinking of getting one of these

[[https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HS5569K?tag=spycom00-20&linkCode=ogi&th=1&psc=1&language=en]]US&asccsource=amp&asccampaign=amp&asccrefurl=spy.com/articles/gear/travel-gear/best-self-defense-keychains-pepper-sprays-personal-alarms-156430/[/quote]
Don’t buy one of those.
A kubaton is a self defence weapon. Use it here (or meet a police officer who recognises it) and you are a criminal with an offensive weapon.

And would you know how to use one? it’s no good having a kubaton or a key and just prodding someone with it, it’s designed to be pressed against pressure points. A small it of pressure in the appropriate place puts you in control, pressure in the wrong place just irritates your attacker

Carry a Chubb key, or a key ring bottle opener and go to a self defence class

@moneysavvymam

Yes exactly. Women should be safe from murder and rape at home. Home should be a sanctuary.

@Cadburycup77

I do believe that you are legally allowed to carry bottles of hairspray upon your person.

You are also technically allowed to carry knife on you if you have a reasonable excuse for having it on your person.

My understanding is that In England you are not allowed to carry anything with the intent of using it to hurt someone even if in self defence .So if you carry hairspray with the intent to use it for self defence if needed that is illegal. If you sleep with a baseball bat by you bed to use just in case you are attacked that is illegal.

It is not illegal to have hairspray in your bag to use to touch up you hair or to store a baseball bat by your bed because it is easy to find when you need it to play a game of baseball

I think it is about intent more than what you have. So it isn't illegal to carry a knife if you are taking it with you to someone's house because you are cooking there and it is your favourite knife but if you think you might be attacked and have it for self defence that is illegal.

I'm American and used to carry pepper spray.

Now that I live in England, I carry one of these https://empoweredbyashley.com/products/the-ashley-personal-safety-alarm?cmpid=14154369787&adggid=126023969232&kwd=ashley%20safety%20alarm&device=m&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1df-xqau8wIVbYBQBh3nmwlcEAAYASAAEgLtAvDBwE

@luckylavender

I was at University in the NW in the Ripper years and it was standard practice to carry rape alarms.

A rape alarm is not an offensive item. It’s an alert.

I’ve never heard one being used outside of girls trying out the ones we were seemingly all bought before we went to uni .

I would carry pepper spray if it were legal here.

If you've ever watched any cams of women being attacked on the street, it happens so very very fast.

I doubt I'd be able to get to the spray.

Self defense training might be better to at least try to break their hold and run off.