to ask if you would carry?

[bellaweir]

After what's happened with Sarah Everard and Sabina Nessa this past week I was chatting to my mum about being safe outside.

We ended up down a rabbit hole of American women carrying guns/pepper spray/tasers for their own safety and I wanted a wider opinion on it.

If it were legal in the uk to carry something for your own protection would you?

@bellaweir

Would anyone actually feel safer with a bus driver than a policeman? Thinking about it, I think I would

You go ahead & call a bus driver in the dead of night when your house is getting broken into... seriously the police do the job most people would shudder at. You can't lose faith in the police because of the actions of one despicable man. Speak to any serving officer and they are as disgusted at his actions as any other person.

No, I wouldn’t want it to be legal to carry weapons. I mean if it’s legal to carry knives/pepper spray etc then the attacker is as likely to have them and will probably be more confident than me using them.

To me it would be a slippery slop to god knows what so no I wouldn’t.

Yes.

I think I remember reading about research showing that in places where it is legal to carry various weapons of the kinds you listed, people carrying them were far more likely to have those weapons taken off them during an attack and used against them as the victim, far more often than the weapons being successfully used to fight off an attack. Making these things legal to carry makes there be far more of them aboit, if there are more of them about they will be used more, and it seens pretty much a no-brainer that the majority of such use would be by aggressive attackers rather than innocent defenders so the net suffering would go up.

There are such things as "safety keychains" which have various legal things that would help.

Lots of independent people making them or cheaper versions on Amazon, eBay etc

Once weapons are legally carried they can be carried by predators. No guns or pepper spray for me. The rate of murder per hundred thousand is many times higher in the US.

I'm not sure this would have helped Sarah. She was coerced into the car under false pretences and handcuffed (probably to part of the car). I agree we need more protection .

I’d be forced to carry as there’d be men with guns out there. So I’d feel a lot less safe than I do now. Plus women take care of children more and you’d have the stress of being super vigilant that they never got ahold of your gun.

I never get the argument about guns being good for women. They don’t seem to be in the USA. it’s not like they’re killed at a lower rate or anything.
If you’ve had a stalker or dodgy ex in this country just imagine if he had access to guns.

Also I don’t see what relevance this has to Sarah’s case. She was deceived. When in handcuffs there’s not much she could do. And men still act like this in the USA.

Guns? No way. I don't want our police to be routinely armed. The US is totally fucked up. Let's not copy any of their examples in the criminal justice system, policing or health.

I don't think legalising those things would be helpful, no. If it's legal for you then it's legal for everyone else too, and more often than not any weapons are turned against the victim.

Carry a personal alarm, take a self defense class and take precautions like being on the phone to a friend etc.

No I'm too hesitant. Whatever I was carrying would end up being snatched out my hand and used on me. I'd literally be giving them a weapon.

I read something ages ago. I can't remember the exact details but I think it was about home invasions in SA and quite a high majority of people who'd bought guns for protection ended up being killed by their own gun, because ultimately they weren't actually prepared to use it.

I have a penknife on my keyring (under 3 inches, so legal), spikey bottle opener, spray deodorant and various other items of self defence (within the bounds of the law of course ) on me when ever I leave home.

No, definitely not. I grew up in the US and more guns out on the streets just escalates things, there’s more force, more violence. I’ve never felt uncomfortable walking around in the UK like I did in the US.

We have guns. They are safely locked away and not for that purpose. Would I shoot someone in my house if I felt we were in danger? Absolutely. But I wouldn’t want to live in such a state of hyper vigilance of carrying a gun for self-protection.

Agree with the PPs that if you make those things legal, you’re just legalising them for everyone. That’s not going to achieve anything.

I wouldn't carry anything even if it were legal. I try my hardest not to put myself in danger.

I have a teen daughter who has taken to kickboxing and loves it. She has also always trained with adult men so is well used to fighting those bigger than her.

The club she attends also does self defence regularly so they are trying to give their members some advice on what to do to be able to get away if needed.

I would hope that the above would give her the tools to be able to escape and the fitness means that she could keep running.

It's sad that this still needs to be thought about for women though

If it was legal for me to carry a gun, it'd be legal for potential rapists to carry guns.

Absolutely no way this would help, it doesn't help in the USA.

We need state action to tackle violance against women and girls.

I'd have a concealed firearm if allowed.

When I walk in the dark, which comes early in winter. I have a high Viz vest folded in my bag, put on once dark. A rechargeable head lamp that's very bright and casts a pool in front of me. I have a small rechargeable Bluetooth speaker to play music audible to other people.

I know it's probably silly and does nothing but I figure if I'm seen by as many people as possible, I'll have more eyes on me than an attacker would be comfortable with.

I wouldn’t, because I’ve frozen in terror before and I don’t think I’d be able to use anything – only have it used against me.

It also puts the onus on women, again: carry these things, protect yourself. And offers another get out for attackers in court if their victim didn’t have the legalised defences: “oh, but she wasn’t carrying pepper spray” becomes the new “she was drunk/skimpily dressed”. The correct solution is for all men to wear a tag/bracelet and adhere to a curfew.

Incidentally if you’re carrying keys, don’t hold them in your fingers, hold them in your fist so you can stab the leg of someone who grabs you from behind.

A pen is perfectly legal to use in self defence. It does me.

Weirdly I was having a similar conversation with my mum last night too, I'd been looking for something legal online that could harm an attacker, there's bugger all, there's a spray that paints their face red, that's it. If I could carry a knife or own a gun I absolutely would. Obviously being a woman I've always been cautious but the latest stories have really frightened me, especially now the dark mornings are here and I take the dog out at 6am in a semi rural area.

No I wouldn't. Isn't this why there's a problem with knife carrying/crime in some areas? People think they have to carry knives for self defence which in turn leads to increased rates of stabbings (I know it's different thing from this). Plus there are always some who would use 'self defence' as an excuse. It's a slippery slope.

I’d mace an attacker, no hesitating. I run alone in the dark (early morning) and would actually love to be able to use something to defend myself against a fucker.

I'd carry pepper spray. I know people that have carried travel sized hairspray.

Not sure what good it would do though. As others have said, you are more at risk from people you know generally. In a stranger danger situation, it depends how quickly you can grab the spray and use it.

I would never carry a gun and would not support that being allowed.