Page 5 | To think it’s unfair single-sex schools aren’t an option for many (perhaps even most)?

patienceandprudence · 2021-10-02T21:59:48+00:00

I have one single sex state school (and in fact there is only one private) in my county. It is in the county town, which we are not in the catchment for. It would take an hour and half to get to by public transport anyway. Since it has been proven many times over that girls do better in single sex schools, why on earth aren’t there more options for those of us not in 11+ counties? I think it’s a great shame, and it doesn’t seem to be a thing that’s even being thought about.

Notdoingthis · 03/10/2021 07:53

So the arguments are results and sexual harrassment? If those are your top priorities I guess.
But I firmly believe, as many have said, segregation is an alternative to education and formation on sexual harassment.
I went to co ed, and my experiences with mixing with boys were overwhelmingly positive. I still have great friendships with wonderful boys and girls from my school days. I could never deny that for my children.
We must address the sexual harassment problem, but not by segregation.

RedMarauder · 03/10/2021 07:53

@Ashville5 that depends on the school. There are two single sex girls schools near me and one is known for its long standing issues with mental issues and eating disorders.

Notdoingthis · 03/10/2021 07:54

I meant segregation is NOT an alternative to education and formation on sexual harrassment!

gogohm · 03/10/2021 07:54

Society isn't segregated by sex so I don't understand why state education is. My local state comprehensive school was single sex so I sent my DD's further afield - the single sex school has a good academic record but unless you are a girly girl you don't fit in, they don't even have football pitches (my dd plays football and rugby) .

EllieSattler · 03/10/2021 07:55

@sashh

I would never send a child to a single sex school, they screw you up in many ways, great results but not much else.

I grew up in an area with mostly single sex schools. Went to an all girls school. Strangely all my friends managed to go to uni and make male and female friends and have healthy romantic relationships. Several of us work in traditionally male dominated fields, and I definitely think that was in part not facing sexism when it came to selecting gcse and A Level subjects and then degree courses. So, I can't agree with this opinion at all.

If I can get my daughter into the single sex grammar half an hour away I definitely will do. She deserves an education where she doesn't have to worry about being groped in the corridors, being distracted by boyfriend dramas, or talked over and dissuaded from STEM subjects by the boys. If it turns out to be the wrong environment for her then she can always move schools.

Phineyj · 03/10/2021 07:56

Leaving aside all the social aspects, it's the case that girls' single sex schools have proportionally larger numbers taking STEM subjects and Economics, Politics etc (I assume the converse may be true re boys taking Humanities and creative subjects in boys' single sex ones...but it's not something I've researched). So for that reason alone I'd choose single sex if my DD was strong in those subjects.

I think there's quite a bit of research suggesting mixed at primary, single sex up to 16 and mixed at sixth form achieves the best overall outcome, but admissions-wise that would be hard as many areas have got mostly mixed or mostly single-sex options.

Mixed sixth forms would address the issue of girls not mixing with boys, although I was one of those (no brothers, no close male friends) and it didn't take me long to adapt at university. So by the time I discovered some boys like to talk over you in discussion, I already had the good grades in the boy dominated subjects. I got a First, maybe as I got to do more listening .

I have had students tell me that they won't apply for certain university courses after looking at the female/male breakdown, which I think is a shame, although understandable.

GabriellaMontez · 03/10/2021 07:58

Yanbu.
I work in a co Ed. My daughters attend single sex (free, state school). I'm so happy.

They still travel there with boys, socialise with boys etc. But their education isn't disrupted by boys in the classroom, and they aren't harassed by boys in lessons and corridors.

pontefractals · 03/10/2021 07:59

I went to a mixed sex state school, thirty years ago. Sexual harassment was rife, as was blatant discrimination. There were enough computers for half the maths class - guess which half ended up hogging them every lesson? The boys in our GCSE English class refused to read one of the proposed books because of its "feminist agenda" - ie, one of the main characters was female. The teacher did try to convince them but eventually put it to the vote and we ended up with Lord of the Flies (in which the ONLY female character is pig, who is chased and killed). I was threatened with rape on a regular basis and didn't bother telling anyone because I was sure they would either not believe me (wolf-whistles and catcalls were seen as a compliment, I thought they'd say I was too plain to have that sort of problem) or would make things worse if they DID try to deal with it. By the time I left I was completely broken. It certainly didn't teach me any healthy ways to interact with boys or men.
I don't know what the answer is for all of society, and how you balance everyone's needs, but I think a single sex schooling might have been better for me personally.

GabriellaMontez · 03/10/2021 08:00

[quote RedMarauder]@Ashville5 that depends on the school. There are two single sex girls schools near me and one is known for its long standing issues with mental issues and eating disorders.[/quote]
That is a reflection of the kind of girl that attends that school. It's not caused by the school.

Ashville5 · 03/10/2021 08:01

So you will know at 11 that your dd is strong at STEM. I didn’t.They change. STEM isn’t that great in primary. Girls vary. Many won’t prefer STEM and it all counts for shit if mental health is poor.

I do think numbers of pupils in each school under CAHMs should be made public.

Simonjt · 03/10/2021 08:02

My sisters went to a girls secondary, it was the nearest one so it was cheaper than having to pay for a bus. Students weren’t allowed to play ‘boys’ sports, so no football, basketball etc. Touch typing lessons were compulsory as “ladies make wonderful secretaries”, DT, triple science, graphics weren’t taught at all (textiles and cooking were), students were encouraged to stick to the long uniform skirt because “men like you to be mysterious”. My sister is in her early 30’s, so only 15 years ago her school was training their students to be little house wives. The year after she left the head teacher was discovered to be stealing public funds, and so also lost her position as magistrate, if only she has been more ‘lady like’ and down trodden like her students were trained to be.

Due to their reputation for preventing girls having access to an equal education their numbers fell year on year, they went co-ed a few years ago and girls now finally have equal access to school subjects, but they’re probably still subjected to sexism from SLT.

mafted · 03/10/2021 08:02

I'd have hated being stuck solely with the female bullies who made my life miserable at secondary school. My male friends saved me from being beaten up and humiliated so many times, they made life bearable.

However I don't think the presence of male peers enhanced my DD's educational experience.
I think rather than single sex schools perhaps some lessons should be taught as single sex within the Co Ed environment.

Rugsofhonour · 03/10/2021 08:04

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Ashville5 · 03/10/2021 08:06

GabriellaMontez I disagree. I think girls often want to fit in.An all girl environment without boys to dilute it can be toxic. I also think many girls who like make company are lonely. Then you get neuro diverse girls who can find fitting in to female groups hard, neuro diversity can come to light later….

pontefractals · 03/10/2021 08:06

Blimey, that was long, sorry! Somewhat cathartic, though.

Elephantsparade · 03/10/2021 08:07

I know statistics show girls do better academically particularly in maths at single sex schools but i am interested in how this translates into the rest of life. Individual stories of how it did or idnt work are so subjective . I was grateful for boys in my class someone else in the same clas might have hated it. I wonder if there are earning stats too

katscamel · 03/10/2021 08:09

I went to a single sex school many years ok...at that time that's what the grammar schools were. Worst thing I ever did...All through primary school I worked hard to be better than the boys... I of course didn't get that experience at an all girls.. it just wasn't the same.

GabriellaMontez · 03/10/2021 08:09

I do think numbers of pupils in each school under CAHMs should be made public.

What do you think this will tell you?
I think this says more about the parents of children at the school. And perhaps a willingness to acknowledge and deal with issues.

seriousandloyal · 03/10/2021 08:10

I would have hated a single sex school as a child, I had lots of good friends both girls and boys and it was great to hang out in mixed groups. Still friends with lots of them to this day.

Phineyj · 03/10/2021 08:10

It's a very valid point that you have to choose when you don't know what will suit your DD best. Maybe it should be easier to change at 13. I have a neurodiverse DD and I do see already that she finds gaming elite boys much more straightforward than navigating female friendships. She's only 8, but the clock is ticking on secondary decisions. So this thread is very useful.

Phineyj · 03/10/2021 08:10

gaming with boys!

sashh · 03/10/2021 08:11

I grew up in an area with mostly single sex schools. Went to an all girls school. Strangely all my friends managed to go to uni and make male and female friends and have healthy romantic relationships. Several of us work in traditionally male dominated fields, and I definitely think that was in part not facing sexism when it came to selecting gcse and A Level subjects and then degree courses. So, I can't agree with this opinion at all.

I think there is more than just single sex, my experience was more like the other PP I could take typing as an option but my school didn't teach 'boy's subjects' at all so my choices of subjects were restricted at age 11. We did have a fully furnished flat to practice cleaning baths and hand washing clothes.

Sexual harassments can and does happen in single sex schools, as does bullying.

Whitefire · 03/10/2021 08:12

No wonder people are getting defensive, apparently if you send your daughter to a co-ed you are leaving them open to sexual abuse and poor academic outcomes. Your sons will all be disruptive and spoil it for the girls. The vast majority of parents don't have the choice, even if I could afford private there isn't any single sex private schools nearby (there are no private schools at all in my LA)

If you have that choice then it is yours to make, but don't shit over everyone who doesn't.

Phineyj · 03/10/2021 08:12

CAHMS numbers will tell you mainly about the affluence of parents, because anyone with a sad child and cash gave up on that service and similar ones years ago .

GabriellaMontez · 03/10/2021 08:13

@Ashville5

GabriellaMontez I disagree. I think girls often want to fit in.An all girl environment without boys to dilute it can be toxic. I also think many girls who like make company are lonely. Then you get neuro diverse girls who can find fitting in to female groups hard, neuro diversity can come to light later….

Let's disagree. The girls at that school (I think I know where but its probably the same anywhere.) If they're struggling... life is going to be even harder in your average comp.