To think it’s unfair single-sex schools aren’t an option for many (perhaps even most)?

[patienceandprudence]

I have one single sex state school (and in fact there is only one private) in my county. It is in the county town, which we are not in the catchment for. It would take an hour and half to get to by public transport anyway.

Since it has been proven many times over that girls do better in single sex schools, why on earth aren’t there more options for those of us not in 11+ counties? I think it’s a great shame, and it doesn’t seem to be a thing that’s even being thought about.

@caketiger

Schools socialise you for adult life. Single sex schools do not. I went to one. Didn't know how to deal with boys at all.

@Evesgarden

• why do you find this strange? Your comment is like raised eyebrows - it suggests the poster is odd.

So you'd think I'm strange, too, because I totally agree with @caketiger

And I'd add that if your self-confidence and
sense of self - a lot of your ego - is allowed to develop without the intrusion/confusion of your own sexual/romantic response to the opposite sex, then this can cause real problems when you get into the mixed real world.

You can come out super sure of yourself, take one look at a boy and be paralysed with embarrassment/insecurity and a whole host of other unresolved and very strong feelings and physical responses.

You haven't learnt how to deal with this by being around them all the time, and growing up with them, and it can be a real shock - at an age (18, mixed university) when you had really thought you knew who you were.

IMO it's a dangerous risk. Not all girls feel like that, but many do to some degree. Maybe better to come out a fully-formed, functioning person in a world of two sexes. Part of your teenage development is learning how to deal with the opposite sex.

So I'm not at all sure I'd be behind widespread availability of single sex secondary education. School isn't just about exam results.

Having said all that, I think so long as it's a day school and there's significant socialising with boys outside school (sports, friends, family, etc), then nowadays single sex might at least have the advantage of allowing girls to concentrate better at school and be in an environment where they are allowed to function as people, rather than being categorised as female.

There are a few state girls school in my city but they tend to be largely muslim children. Not that that is an issue necessarily but I went to one as a child and did feel, as a non Muslim, that I didn't really fit in.

I’m in an outstanding state primary but I’m seriously considering withdrawing my daughter to go to the private single sex schools. I’d rather not tbh at this age but at the age of 5 she is already complaining about low level disruption and more recently being hit by some of the boys. It’s quite a worry for me tbh as she always seems to be partnered with the more challenging boys and I’m getting fed up if it.

I went to a single sex school for the first 5 years of secondary. I loathed it. Horrible atmosphere, bullying and just general weirdness. Went to mixed sixth form which was a breath of fresh air.

Dd chose to go to single sex secondary. Despite my misgivings It was fantastic for her, she thrived and has a group of really solid girlfriends.

So my take on it is that is entirely depends on the school. Mine was awful, hers was great. Having single sex option doesn’t equate to better experience in all cases. You might have a single sex catchment school but it might be like mine was, or might be like hers. Or maybe she got lucky with her cohort, and I was unlucky with mine.

Both ds chose to go to a mixed school. Seems to be working for them, but then have friends with boys at the local single sex schools who seem happy. Much of this relates to the fact that local schools are generally pretty good. Non-grammar area, but we live “in catchment” for I suppose 2 ss girls schools, 2 ss boys schools and 2 co-Ed. Suburban area with solid comprehensives.

@PennyWus

NB DD’s single sex school also down the rabbit hole. Loos reframed as gender neutral etc and 4 girls in her year identifying as boys. Not so much at ds’s mixed school - that I know of.

It’s an interesting phenomenon that I have many thoughts on - I do wonder whether in single sex spaces where there isn’t an “other” in terms of sex, girls may be more inclined to express their sense of unhappiness with puberty or whatever as them being boys. Or that it’s more palatable to identify as a boy than as a lesbian. And the school is brilliant generally with empowerment across the board, which translates to utter acceptance, cheerleading and empowerment of trans just as much as pushing girls to do STEM.

Whereas in the mixed school, one would not only be identifying as “other” in relation to ones cohort of girls, but having to identify WITH the other of the cohort of boys. Perhaps more tricky and “real” to negotiate.

Anyway - massive digression.

All my children girls and boys are at single sex schools. The girls school couldn’t be faulted in many ways but if I had my time again I would never ever do it again. For several reasons.

The main one is mental health. Mental health problems seem to be a big issue at the girls school and eating disorders far too common. When I look at the support and information re mental health in the girls school it makes no sense. The school is very much on it. I firmly believe the all girls environment without the dilution of boys breeds it.The behaviour outside of school as regards risky behaviour also concerns me too. So many “hook up” with boys they’re forced to meet online as opposed to meeting in an everyday situation. Sex tapes, pics, sexting etc is rife. Girls harass boys too. My sons have experienced it.Teenage girls naturally want to meet up with boys and vice versa.They seem to do it very early on into meeting online and I think part of this is due to not being able to meet in person. Socialising outside of school seems to happen less with the huge use of phones too so no access to the opposite sex in the everyday environment compounds the issue.Then you get issues re young people you don’t know at 11 when picking schools which come to light further down the line- sexuality, neuro diversity, personality etc. Teenagers are their own people and they develop. Many won’t suit single sex schools. Finally you get the damage caused by all boys schools which are a breeding ground for toxic masculinity, homophobia and misogyny. It’s not fun for many boys attending such schools and frankly not great for society.

Single sex schools are wrong on so many levels. We need better protection and education in coed schools. Life is coed

I’d support choice. I would probably rather my kids went to mixed schools; but I went to all girls school and enjoyed it. Different kids suit different settings.

I did find it hard to flirt with boys at uni, but in a work setting I have no issue.

I was at school a long time ago. But I went to co-ed schools throughout and at secondary level the sexual harassment of girls was off the chart. Having your arse or tits groped and having your appearance appraised or rated was a daily occurrence. Many male teachers were complicit in it.

I’d naively assumed things would have changed in 20 years but recent news reports suggest it’s worsened, if anything.

I agree with the poster who said that single sex schools would be commonplace if it had been shown that boys fared better in them.

I went to a girl's school as did DD. Both of us thrived there.

No bitchiness, just a huge pool of potential friends.

The bitchiness thing always gets me. Do people think that girls are nasty all together but are calmed by the presence of boys?

We have found the opposite. A good friend's DD has developed an eating disorder due to nasty comments from the boys in her class. Lots of girls dressing for the male gaze from a young age.

DD hated the boys in her primary school, possibly because as a sensible girl she was always next to the disruptive boys.

All girl's secondary was a relief. She's very STEM as are her friends. Lots of classes of girls doing Maths, Physics and Chemistry A Levels. I went to a mixed 6th form and there were only 3 girls doing Physics A level.

OP, my family moved boroughs so that I could go to a girl's grammar. Would that be an option?

I've attended both. I started year seven in a mixed school and I absolutely hated it! I found the girls were horrible and seemed intent on making sure that they were popular and the boys fancied them, while putting the other girls down. Studying seemed to be the last thing on everyones minds. I also found the boys annoying and immature. I used to cry every night. Eventually I refused to attend and my mom quickly found a place for me at our local girls school.

I never had a problem there and settled in very quickly. I felt so much more relaxed!

I think its whatever suits the individual child. I am able to speak to men perfectly fine and function well in life despite the fact that I was educated away from males.

The bitchiness thing always gets me. Do people think that girls are nasty all together but are calmed by the presence of boys?

Yep. More than a whiff of misogyny about that.

If I found a mixed school with as many girls doing Further Maths A level as boys, I’d consider it. I haven’t yet.

And that proves to me that mixed schools haven’t managed to stamp out the stereotypes that boys are best at Maths / Physics and girls at History / English. I’ve got a tomboy who is excellent at Maths - I want her in an environment where that makes her one of many, not an uncomfortable exception.

I went to a mixed school then moved to a girls school, it was much better. I loved it as there were no disruptions or silliness. My husband went to a single sex school too, he liked it. We live near those schools and planned to send our children there. However the number of children going to those schools has declined so much, that one closed down to merge with the other. My daughter goes there, she does enjoy it and can't imagine it without boys, as they're all friends.

I also think some girls want, need and prefer male friendships and company. Kids change dramatically from 11-16 and you can’t predict the future.Forced segregation can be pretty miserable for many of both sexes.

I find it interesting that at our single sex schools the exodus at 6th form to coed seems to be greater from the girls and less from the boys.

@Insert1x20p

The problem is that single sex boys schools are far less popular than single sex girls school, so, as a previous poster indicated, if you have single sex schools, then it tends to skew the ratio in the co-ed schools because more girls go single sex than boys. That becomes an issue for councils so they’d probably rather it was all co-ed for max admissions flexibility. I imagine that outweighs the potential benefits/ parental choice.

I would be interested to see your source for the assertion that single sex boys schools are less popular than single sex boys schools, because that doesn't seem to be the case where I live. The non-selective Ofsted outstanding boys' school near me is hugely over subscribed, with people choosing it for their sons over closer mixed schools.

More popular than girls schools, clearly! Excuse the typo!

My girls are thriving in their single sex state. Free to speak up in lessons very feminist ethos. So unlike my mixed comp where the boys dominated I basically kept my head down for 5 years.

I loved girls’ secondary school and that was pre mobile phones so less pressure all round I would say. Yes there was some meanness (I don’t like ‘bitchiness’) but it wasn’t usually based around internalised misogyny and competing for boys’ attention. Or desperately seeking to avoid the boys’ attention. We competed to get good marks in school. The culture was about focusing on the work. I went to a mixed sixth form college for A level and the culture was around dating. Academic work was an afterthought.

Afterwards I can ‘see’ and I resent and try to challenge sexist behaviour where I can, having been relatively free of it over the years aged 11-16. I’m so grateful for that protected time. If I didn’t know that life is not always so hostile to women , I would have really struggled. I wish that state single sex school was an option for everyone.

My DDs attend a single sex academy. Being in bottom sets across the board, one DD describes these classes as small, mutually supportive learning environments where every girl is engaged and encouraged. She's switched on to learning in a new way. I doubt this would have been the case had she gone on to the local mixed secondary and been in bottom sets with some of the boys from her primary school, who would possibly have carried on dominating and disrupting learning interventions in much the same way as in the last years of primary.
A PP also makes the point about girls dressing for the male gaze from a young age at mixed schools. I really like that at DDs' school, girls really don't seem to give two hoots about rolling up skirts, wearing sneaky make up etc as the girls I see walking to the mixed school. Lots of sensible haircuts, sensible shoes and also things like un-cool bags which I think they'd get viciously teased about at a the mixed comp. It's like an oasis of not having to please anyone but themselves.
And of course they have male friends and boys they see for extra curricular activities, the sons of my friends and male neighbours of a similar age. That's my responsibility.
A friend's DD has just started Y7 at a specialist, partially selective, massively oversubscribed mixed secondary, and has already reported the boys sending eachother porn clips which they watch on their way to and from school and try to get the girls to view. Disappointing.

Our local coed comp is really good but we lives 45mins from grammar schools and there's a bus. Dd has just started yr 8 and is thriving in an all girls atmosphere. It's definitely the right choice for her. DS will hopefully go to the all boys grammar in 2 years.

I would never send a child to a single sex school, they screw you up in many ways, great results but not much else.

Dd is a quite bright and hot horribly bullied for being 'a geek' by the boys at her primary. The girls at her single sex school seem very supportive and equally bright and ambitious.

WomanIsTaken
Your experience is different to mine.rolled up skirts and make up worse in the girls school. And making friendships for your teen isn’t your responsibility. Young people need to make their own friendships. How does one engineer teen mixed friendships anyway? Extra curricular activities are often expensive and most teens I know have pretty definitive ideas of want they want to do outside of school themselves and who they socialise with.

I also think the assumption that all girls are bright and ambitious is setting up mental issues right there. Can’t girls just be. When did we all become bright and ambitious and why do we all have to be? Girls vary hugely.