To think it’s unfair single-sex schools aren’t an option for many (perhaps even most)?

[patienceandprudence]

I have one single sex state school (and in fact there is only one private) in my county. It is in the county town, which we are not in the catchment for. It would take an hour and half to get to by public transport anyway.

Since it has been proven many times over that girls do better in single sex schools, why on earth aren’t there more options for those of us not in 11+ counties? I think it’s a great shame, and it doesn’t seem to be a thing that’s even being thought about.

Also I didn't dig in to see how they were defining 'violent'.

@Phineyj I'm interested to know what the aristocracy is of males as a whole. So I'm a classroom of 100 boys - how many likely to be predators. ThT will tell us how wide scale the problem is .

@Phineyj

Using publicly available statistics (ONS, BBC), 1.2m violent incidents a year in the UK (2020) 93% of them committed by males, 33m males, so about a 3.4% chance in the case of any particular male; although I've used total number of males (all ages) and the violent incidents is probably 18+, and no doubt there are serial offenders.

Equivalent figure for females 0.07 × 1.2m ÷ 33m = 0.3%.

It also doesn't account for unreported crimes and microaggressions, of which there are many.

@sashh

I would never send a child to a single sex school, they screw you up in many ways, great results but not much else.

See this is just a ridiculous generalisation.

I grew up in Ireland with, I'd say, 80-90% of people at second level being educated in single-sex schools (that may be lower now, but is still a vast majority).

If single-sex education truly "screwed everyone up" then we'd be a non-functioning society of weirdos (we're not, in case you're wondering).

Of course, not every school suits every person, but that isn't an indicator of the benefits or drawbacks of a certain way of schooling on a population level.

I chose my daughters state academy because although it was a CoEd school the lessons were taught in single sex groups.

I went to a single sex school that went CoEd in the final two years and I remember how the lessons and the classroom experience went downhill very quickly after that so I was keen for my DD to have the chance of a single sex classroom environment.

She had problems with boys at primary who dominated the lessons and openly mocked anyone who got answers wrong. My DD's confidence wasn't great at a result.

The first year at the state academy went really well and DD was happy. Then at the end of Y7 the school announced that the government had forced it to go completely CoEd. The head told me that the school were no longer legally allowed to offer single sex classes. The government only allows exemptions for faith or grammar schools apparently.

Y8 was awful. My daughter was immediately bullied by one boy , laughed at and called thick , had inappropriate comments made about her body and her appearance by others and a mean girl culture developed among the girls almost overnight. In the end she was so frightened of negative comments about her face that she refused to take her (Covid) face mask off even to eat. She just stopped eating or drinking at school. Her mental health suffered and she experienced severe panic attacks and anxiety. An eating disorder started. It was a nightmare.

Eventually I had to pull her out of the school. The only single sex options in our area were faith schools or grammar schools , none of which are available to my DD.

We have found a private school that suits her instead and she is much much happier and getting counselling for the issues caused by her experiences in Y8.

Where we live most of the schools both state and private are single sex. We're struggling to find co Ed for our two (one boy, one girl)

What has happened here is that the girls schools are doing well but the boys schools are all requiring improvement. I don't want to send one kid to a failing school just because he has a penis.

posting you can do that exact sum with the rough stats I provided? 3? But those are population level stats so it's not like you could just just pick a random group of 100 males and say there you go, there's the three (for any characteristic).

I don't know what you mean by 'aristocracy' in this context.

Surely the fact that violent crime incidents are 10× more prevalent in the male than female population is sufficient to indicate the scale of the problem .

[quote postingfortraffichere]@aSofaNearYou a poster has associated this with only boys;

judged for what they wear or how popular they are with the boys, being talked over etc.

it's madness [/quote]
I used it as an example of micro aggressions that girls may regularly face from boys at school.
Perhaps you need to re-read my posts if you think I am 'vilifying boys to the point where it's weird'.

I have sons and no daughters. I don’t understand why some parents of sons seem to be unable to discuss sexism without interpreting it as a personal insult towards their son or sons. As parents of boys it’s our responsibility to do our best to bring them up to acknowledge, recognise and address sexism and respect girls and women. Not deny that our precious little princes could ever possibly be part of the problem.

But it's not just about being assaulted- it's all the other sexist micro aggressions that girls face from boys at school- being shown porn (or hearing boys talk about it), being 'rated', talked about sexually, laughed at or humiliated for being on their period, judged for what they wear or how popular they are with the boys, being talked over etc. All the little things that must make a school day exhausting.

I have to say this is a pretty accurate description of my experience of a co-ed secondary school - daily groping, running commentary on girls’ developing bodies, being called ‘frigid’ if you said no to boys, being a ‘slut’ if you said yes, etc. And in the recent report on rape culture in schools it doesn’t sound like much has changed in 15 years.

@MissChanandlerBong81

I have sons and no daughters. I don’t understand why some parents of sons seem to be unable to discuss sexism without interpreting it as a personal insult towards their son or sons. As parents of boys it’s our responsibility to do our best to bring them up to acknowledge, recognise and address sexism and respect girls and women. Not deny that our precious little princes could ever possibly be part of the problem.

It's a big relief to see some mothers of boys are able to see that!

Also what do you mean risk being naive and being unsure of coping with boys? Are you sending your dd to a coed school so she can become 'street wise' to boys and be able to cope with them through negative interaction? no of course not @Evesgarden, you are reading too much into what I said. The fact is the girls only option locally is 15 miles away and private, so hardly viable. Please don't be concerned about my daughter, she has a brother, and is the only girl amongst male cousins, I just want her to grow up to be comfortable with different genders / sexes (related is hardly the same) / religions / colours / backgrounds.

@vinoandbrie

My DDs are at a single sex school, it’s non negotiable for us. I think every child should have the option of single sex school.

Completely agree. I don't want my daughter to navigate all that extra shit that co-ed with boys brings. She's there to learn, and she will do better without.

The world is full of men, its no bad thing that she gets some years free from with the endless primacy of male importance.

Hope many of your daughters end up being clever and bright ! You won’t be able Blame the oposite sex if they don’t end up getting A+!

I get what mothers of girls are saying about abuse. I have a girl and a boy.
But the worst trouble, and the thing that left the longest lasting scars for my DD was the bullying she received from other girls. Awful.

@MissChanandlerBong81

I have sons and no daughters. I don’t understand why some parents of sons seem to be unable to discuss sexism without interpreting it as a personal insult towards their son or sons. As parents of boys it’s our responsibility to do our best to bring them up to acknowledge, recognise and address sexism and respect girls and women. Not deny that our precious little princes could ever possibly be part of the problem.

I have sons and daughters and agree absolutely.

@EasterIssland thank you for your kind thoughts. I have no intention of blaming any other children for how my daughter turns out. She may however not be an A+ student, it’s too early to tell but I plan to love her just the same. Hth.

Thing is someone is raising these sons? That are so sexist and vicious that we should have same sex school options - but who? Who is raising these boys I wonder?

postingfortraffichere

‘Thing is someone is raising these sons? That are so sexist and vicious that we should have same sex school options - but who? Who is raising these boys I wonder?’

^Exactly!

@MissChanandlerBong81

Also, I have a teenage boy. That doesn't stop me from acknowledging that teenage boys as a group of people represent a threat to teenage girls.

Agreed - I have two boys but don’t see it as ‘boy bashing’. I can remember my own experience in co-ed secondary vividly enough to understand exactly why parents of girls may have some concerns.

I agree with you both and I also have a boy.

The first step in creating a society where kids grow up feeling safe is to acknowledge this fact. Instead of closing our eyes or get all defensive and say ‘MY boy isn’t like this’.

It’s how the whole toxic masculinity is made possible, by parents looking the other way.

@theSunday I completely agree but I don't think anyone is denying it's a problem.

I think some posters, or me at least are just saying the same sex schools isn't the answer.

It's like going backwards - it doesn't solve the issue at all it just temporarily postponed it because you're still going to find sexism in the workplace and every other place within society - even if you send your child to same sex school.

This is about educating young boys to behave differently. That is down to teachers and parents in the main. That is who most of the responsibility lies with, at least that we can control - we can't clock our fingers overnight and have sexism removed from mainstream media and society - but we can change our children's mindset for future generations. And I see that as our responsibility as individuals. The parents, teachers and friends of our sons.

Of course we see sexism engrained throughout society but we can only start making small changes as individuals which eventually leads to collective change.

@SheldontheWonderSchlong

Jesus, do we really have to begin everything with Not All Boys Are Like That and Girls Do It Too? Happy now?

Brilliant

No-one is saying ‘all boys or men are sexual predators’.

These issues can be only resolved if we all stick together.

@AnUnlikelyCombination

If I found a mixed school with as many girls doing Further Maths A level as boys, I’d consider it. I haven’t yet.

And that proves to me that mixed schools haven’t managed to stamp out the stereotypes that boys are best at Maths / Physics and girls at History / English. I’ve got a tomboy who is excellent at Maths - I want her in an environment where that makes her one of many, not an uncomfortable exception.

I was in a further maths set that was majority girls. (Okay, so I'll admit that it was unusual, and I got a bit of a shock when I went to an inter-school maths thing where there were 2 of us in a room of 30.)

If everyone with a girl who is into maths/science sends them to a girls school, then it perpetuates the problem. My DD and her friends are strong mathematicians, and I suspect her year group, at any rate, do not see maths as a boys' subject, because the evidence that girls can do maths is right there in front of them.

I think there are both push and pull factors when it comes to choice of A-levels. I think there are more boys who rule out "essay" subjects, so they gravitate towards maths and science.

So glad we start to agree on something @postingfortraffichere I like what you say This is about educating young boys to behave differently. That is down to teachers and parents in the main. That is who most of the responsibility lies with, at least that we can control - we can't clock our fingers overnight and have sexism removed from mainstream media and society - but we can change our children's mindset for future generations. And I see that as our responsibility as individuals. The parents, teachers and friends of our sons

Where we differ is that I honestly think strengthening our girls in an environment without sexual harassment and male micro aggressions could make them equipped to become 100% confident women from the get-go who stand their ground once they get into 6th form and out in the workplace.

I think this could work.

Also boys benefit from single sex because they can explore the humanities, English, poetry etc without being muscled out by the girls.

Separating them whilst encouraging them to overcome gender stereotypes is IMO a possible solution to this.

If everyone with a girl who is into maths/science sends them to a girls school, then it perpetuates the problem. My DD and her friends are strong mathematicians, and I suspect her year group, at any rate, do not see maths as a boys' subject
That’s not quite how it works. I would have excelled at maths in any class, but some of the other girls who did it with me and were reasonably good but not straight As without trying would have either not done it as it’s too full of boys or done worse then they did because the boys got all the attention. The year group effect you describe is very difficult to obtain in a mixed school. Every boy I knew did maths because boys do to get to university, that was far from the case for girls.