To not be sleep training baby?

[Willowrose63]

Hello there!

My baby is nearly 8 months old. At night it takes about 45min to settle to sleep(combo of cuddles,nursing,crawling around our bed,singing and then we transfer her into her own cot). There's no crying and it tends to be a lovely snuggly time. She tends to wake up 3 to 4 times per night and wants to breastfeed back to sleep. There were were few occasions when she only woke once or twice but I couldn't figure out if I'd done anything different on those days. My husband has tried settling her various times but she gets more and more worked up. She did have about one month when she would nap in her cot but now has gone back to only contact napping or in pram or car. Naps total 1.5 to 2.5 hours per day. This I do find draining because it means I have no time apart from baby during the day, I do bedtimes and she only wants me(boobs) during the night. I have been feeling OK about her nighttime sleep just because it is so much better than she was for the first few months of her life and she doesn't take long to settle when she does wake up.

Met up with a couple of Mums from my mums group today and one said that her baby had woken up twice during the night TOTAL in the last 2 weeks and otherwise had slept through every night. Tbh it did take the wind out of my sails a bit. All the other mums in our nct group have done some form of sleep training/ controlled crying and rave about it. Some are saying that their babies fall asleep within 5 mins and settle themselves for naps and everything.

We had been thinking that our experience is pretty common. Feeling a bit like the odd ones out and she's our first baby so don't have any comparison.
My Mum says that breastfed babies just don't sleep well and that's the way it is.

Would love to hear others experiences!

I was/am EXACTLY the same as you, and I love the way I've done things. Yes I'd like less interrupted sleep but I didn't want to try sleep training. Turns out my baby suddenly started sleeping longer around 10 1/2 months and I started to get anything between 5-9 hours out of him. Then we started catching colds at nursery and it all went backwards. But I still have hope for the longer stretches when he is better.

YANBU. I don’t agree with sleep training.

They can rave about it all they want, but the reality is that their baby doesn’t cry simply because they have learnt it’s pointless. They have learnt nobody is coming to comfort them when they’re hungry/cold/hot/sad/just want a hug.

So they can pat themselves on the back for a piss poor job while neglecting their baby when they need their parent the most if they want 🤷‍♀️

Don’t ever doubt yourself. You’re there for baby when they need you. Parenting was never going to be easy, but it is worthwhile

All babies are different, and parents vary a lot; too.

Some people think sleep training young babies is cruel, others can’t cope with being woken up and prioritise encouraging them to sleep through. Some babies won’t be sleep trained regardless.

If you’re happy and coping okay, that is all that matters. If you’re not, look into the sort of things you could try and see if any seem doable or preferable to the status quo for you.

But try not to compare yourself or your baby. They’re all different x

I did a kind of sleep training. To be fair it was right for DS because it was right for me. It made life so much easier. But what I did, or anyone else did, is totally irrelevant. You have to do what you feel is right.

I express fed for six months. Biggest faff of my life (it's about a six hour a day commitment). I don't regret it and I am proud of it.

3 of my bf dc slept through from less than a month old. Complete fluke as their older siblings didn't!!
Snuggly time is lovely at that age op.. Not so wrangling a hefty toddler you are trying to get to sleep whilst you and dh find time for each other and sleep..
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I was exactly the same as you! I also had an NCT group who ALL sleep trained and raved about it and it made me feel really lonely. I think you're doing a wonderful job!

I don’t agree with sleep training. I tried it for about a week with mine because of peer pressure and I’m convinced it made him much worse and also quite clingy. I would stick with what you’re doing if you’re happy enough.

You don’t need to sleep train but I am surprised a 8 month old wakes up to 4 times a night? For feeds? My HV told me from 6 months babies can sleep through the night without feeding. Woudl try and give more food and milk during the day and stop the night feeds gradually. 45mins settling seems normal to me.

@AdriannaP

You don’t need to sleep train but I am surprised a 8 month old wakes up to 4 times a night? For feeds? My HV told me from 6 months babies can sleep through the night without feeding. Woudl try and give more food and milk during the day and stop the night feeds gradually. 45mins settling seems normal to me.

You shouldn’t be surprised. It’s totally normal.

I have an 8 month old and have had a similar experience, not just in how our babies sleep but also how other Mum's in NCT report their babies sleep in group settings. However, on a 1:1 basis I tend to find I get a different story, I think there is a lot of pressure for Mum's to have 'good' babies who sleep through the night, and see it is as a reflection of good parenting. Therefore, I think some exaggerate their more positive nights, and some get lucky with a baby that sleeps well. In reality, it is biologically normal for a baby (esp BF) to wake regularly to feed, but our current Western culture dictates that they 'should' sleep through the night.
As for sleep training, do what it right for your family. It's not right for our family as we have chosen to attachment parent and be sensitive and responsive to our baby's needs whilst he is so little, even though it can be very tough as he is not a great sleeper! Don't let anyone pressure you into doing things differently, there are lots of different ways to approach parenting!

Wow, thanks so much for all the responses already!! I had considered doing it when baby was a bit younger as the constant wakings were getting me a bit down. She didn't sleep more than a 3 hour stretch until she was over 4months old. From what I've heard sometimes it is necessary for parents mental health which in turn is better for baby. Recently though hadn't been finding it as tough...until I started comparing us to other mums and babies!! So thanks for the reminder not to do that. I think just when everyone in the group was talking about it I started to feel a bit bad

Do what YOU think is best

From what I've heard sometimes it is necessary for parents mental health which in turn is better for baby.

No, it’s not better for baby to pass your stress and anxiety onto them. It’s selfish.

When baby is left to cry they are feeling a stress response, and when parents think their sleep training has worked, baby is still feeling that stress response… but alone. And silently. While parent is happy. That’s awful.

Parent brings baby into this world; they have no business then passing their stress to their baby and sitting down all happy because their cruelty has “worked”.

I don’t know what is the most common, but the range of normal is massive.

What you are doing is only a problem when it starts getting annoying for you, or it actually starts making it more difficult for your DC to sleep.

I still have to cuddle DC2 to sleep for all naps, bedtime and wake ups (which can be many). I sit in a chair in their room and think im going to have to tackle it soon because the bigger they get, the more uncomfortable they seem to be trying to fall asleep on my sat until he chair.

"
They can rave about it all they want, but the reality is that their baby doesn’t cry simply because they have learnt it’s pointless. They have learnt nobody is coming to comfort them when they’re hungry/cold/hot/sad/just want a hug.

So they can pat themselves on the back for a piss poor job while neglecting their baby when they need their parent the most if they want 🤷‍♀️"

I hate this view
There is no evidence for this
There are gentle forms of sleep training where the baby isnt left alone to cry
I sleep trained, my baby still cried sometimes and i went in. But they cried when they were genuinely upset, had a nightmare or were ill or something, not just because they had developed a habit of needing me to go back to sleep after every sleep cycle
Not everyone gives themselves a 'pat on the back'. Some of us felt like we couldnt cope with being woken up to comfort feed 7+ times every bloody night for 7 months and it seemed like the lesser of two evils at the time as the tiredness was affecting every aspect of our lives.

An 8 month old waking 4 times a night isn’t ideal. It means they’re not linking their sleep cycles.

I’m amazed by the number of Mumsnetters who are very diligent about their baby’s health when it comes to breastfeeding, weaning, diet etc, but seem to think quality sleep is unnecessary.

Brain development in babies happens when they’re asleep, it really is important that they get a good stretch. That’s not to say they shouldn’t wake in the night at all, particularly in the newborn days, but waking 4 times a night at 8 months old means your baby isn’t getting good quality sleep.

I would do some very gentle sleep training if I were you.

Honestly I'd say do it. At least try. My first born slept through from 6wks. However we still have to stay with her until she falls asleep! Most nights we don't get her down until 9-15. Even if she's bn up since 7am 🙈 I wish I had tried sleep training with her as she slept so gd once she was asleep!

I wasn't making that mistake twice and luckily our almost 2yr old goes to bed by herself and just goes to sleep.

However if she wakes she won't self settle, she comes in my bed for a cuddle. We tried and tried with sleep training but oh my it just didn't work and the whole house wld be awake in the middle of the night with her hysterical crying and screaming. It wld go on for hours. I gave up in the end. I mean she'd go hysterical then calm down then start off again, sometimes I think she wld even nod off for 10mins and start crying again 🙈 If anything going in to her did not settle her, it made her worse 100 times worse when I left again. Even if I finally gave in after several hours of this she wldnt be happy and wld take a long time to settle. I think I maybe tried it too late she was probably 14-16 months when I tried it.

It seems so cruel though when they are so little but your little is probably the right age for it. I'd say try it and see how it goes.

So take last night for example little one was in and out my bed a couple of times and the bigger one came in a few times too. At one point there were 4 of us in the bed 🙈 I think I saw every hour on the clock. When dh got up for work at 6.30 she woke up and wldnt go bk down 😫 brutal!

If you’re happy with what you’re doing and don’t want to do any kind of sleep training then don’t. I did sleep train my DD at 8 months because I was going back to work in a couple of months and knew I couldn’t do my job well and parent well while being woken up 4 times a night. There was one night with a bit of crying and that was is, she’s nearly 4 and still a brilliant sleeper. I’ve got friends who didn’t do any sleep training and all the children got there eventually.

According to a previous poster DD is obviously now traumatised for life - but since she’s displaying this massive trauma through being happy, healthy, bright and having no issues with attachment, I’m happy with our choice.

@seaandsandcastles

YANBU. I don’t agree with sleep training.

They can rave about it all they want, but the reality is that their baby doesn’t cry simply because they have learnt it’s pointless. They have learnt nobody is coming to comfort them when they’re hungry/cold/hot/sad/just want a hug.

So they can pat themselves on the back for a piss poor job while neglecting their baby when they need their parent the most if they want 🤷‍♀️

Don’t ever doubt yourself. You’re there for baby when they need you. Parenting was never going to be easy, but it is worthwhile

I would say not ensuring your baby gets quality sleep for their brain development is ‘piss poor parenting’ 🤷🏼‍♀️

You sound very cranky and over tired to me.

@seaandsandcastles

From what I've heard sometimes it is necessary for parents mental health which in turn is better for baby.

No, it’s not better for baby to pass your stress and anxiety onto them. It’s selfish.

When baby is left to cry they are feeling a stress response, and when parents think their sleep training has worked, baby is still feeling that stress response… but alone. And silently. While parent is happy. That’s awful.

Parent brings baby into this world; they have no business then passing their stress to their baby and sitting down all happy because their cruelty has “worked”.

Do you have more than one child? The issue becomes more pressing when you can't nap in the day because you also have a 3 year old whirlwind to look after.

OP, my 8 month old wakes around 4 times too. I think many breastfed babies do and a lot of 8 months old don't eat much yet (though not sure how relevant that is anyway as they're primarily feeding for comfort not to fill up). I'm surprised so many of your friends have sleep trained - I didn't know many people who did it before around 11 months with my first. I do think though at some point them not sleeping through the night becomes something of a choice, rather than an inevitability - I lost patience with friends moaning about it when their children were 18 months old. No child that age needs multiple milk feeds at night.

My 14 month old doesn’t sleep through but for now I’m happy bedsharing with her until she does as that’s how I get the most sleep.
I don’t judge parents who sleep train (and certainly don’t think they’re neglectful as someone up thread suggested) but it’s not right for me and DD.

In reply to @Gingerbreadstars there is a post I saw yesterday which explains the difference between sleep deprivation and sleep fragmentation as they’re not the same thing (and this explains it better than I can)

www.instagram.com/p/CUafp65I5RU/?utm_medium=copy_link

Guess it depends on when you're going back to work and how you will function with such broken sleep.

I didn’t sleep train either of mine. The first I spent what felt like hours every night trying to settle her in a cot, the second I didn’t have the time or energy for that palava so I’ve always settled her in bed then transferred her to a cot until she was old enough for her own bed, we got a double and we just get in together every night, have a snuggle and she goes to sleep easily. She’s four and we’re still doing it (lying next to her right now), it’s quick and painless and we both love a good cuddle. Best thing I ever did, my only regret is that I wasted so much time trying to convince my first to settle in a cot when she was so clearly communicating to me that she wanted to be with me. Why I didn’t just meet her need I have no idea, would have been so much nicer for both of us.
Do what works for you, don’t spend a second wondering about what other people are doing. You’ll find the right path for you and your kid.

[quote SamanthaVimes]My 14 month old doesn’t sleep through but for now I’m happy bedsharing with her until she does as that’s how I get the most sleep.
I don’t judge parents who sleep train (and certainly don’t think they’re neglectful as someone up thread suggested) but it’s not right for me and DD.

In reply to @Gingerbreadstars there is a post I saw yesterday which explains the difference between sleep deprivation and sleep fragmentation as they’re not the same thing (and this explains it better than I can)

www.instagram.com/p/CUafp65I5RU/?utm_medium=copy_link[/quote]
That’s an Instagram post?

I was referring to an article I read about infants under 12 months. I can’t find it now, but it was along the lines of this article, which says fragmented sleep ~12 months old is a predictor of poor emotional skills as a toddler:

neurosciencenews.com/fragmented-sleep-developmental-neuroscience-2860/

Sleep training doesn't have to be letting them to cry until they realise it's pointless and don't bother, that's such a drastic view 🙄

Honestly don't compare yourself to others. If it's working for you then carry on and if you fancy trying something else do it aswell