To not be sleep training baby?

[Willowrose63]

Hello there!

My baby is nearly 8 months old. At night it takes about 45min to settle to sleep(combo of cuddles,nursing,crawling around our bed,singing and then we transfer her into her own cot). There's no crying and it tends to be a lovely snuggly time. She tends to wake up 3 to 4 times per night and wants to breastfeed back to sleep. There were were few occasions when she only woke once or twice but I couldn't figure out if I'd done anything different on those days. My husband has tried settling her various times but she gets more and more worked up. She did have about one month when she would nap in her cot but now has gone back to only contact napping or in pram or car. Naps total 1.5 to 2.5 hours per day. This I do find draining because it means I have no time apart from baby during the day, I do bedtimes and she only wants me(boobs) during the night. I have been feeling OK about her nighttime sleep just because it is so much better than she was for the first few months of her life and she doesn't take long to settle when she does wake up.

Met up with a couple of Mums from my mums group today and one said that her baby had woken up twice during the night TOTAL in the last 2 weeks and otherwise had slept through every night. Tbh it did take the wind out of my sails a bit. All the other mums in our nct group have done some form of sleep training/ controlled crying and rave about it. Some are saying that their babies fall asleep within 5 mins and settle themselves for naps and everything.

We had been thinking that our experience is pretty common. Feeling a bit like the odd ones out and she's our first baby so don't have any comparison.
My Mum says that breastfed babies just don't sleep well and that's the way it is.

Would love to hear others experiences!

@seaandsandcastles

YANBU. I don’t agree with sleep training.

They can rave about it all they want, but the reality is that their baby doesn’t cry simply because they have learnt it’s pointless. They have learnt nobody is coming to comfort them when they’re hungry/cold/hot/sad/just want a hug.

So they can pat themselves on the back for a piss poor job while neglecting their baby when they need their parent the most if they want 🤷‍♀️

Don’t ever doubt yourself. You’re there for baby when they need you. Parenting was never going to be easy, but it is worthwhile

This is not what sleeping training. It's giving them the tools to learn to self soothe.

What a damaging and awful message. Especially for Mums, who's last resort may be to sleep train.

@FlyingPandas good point about not getting caught up in the all or nothing thinking.
And thanks everyone for sharing what has and hasn't worked for them. Reassuring hearing about how different ways worked for different kids.

[quote Willowrose63]@Nannylp yes cuddly time is lovely!

Alot of the time I love it and other days I'm tired and a but touched out. I remember reading online(on a desperate middle of the night googling sesh) that babies had to be taught/trained how to get to sleep by themselves. I guess I was getting a bit concerned that she is still waking and wanting to feed to settle because we hadn't taught her otherwise. Also I'll be going back to work when she's around 14months and I do days and nights. So she will need another way to settle back to sleep if I'm not there.[/quote]
If you wait too long, toddler days will be a nightmare.

I sleep trained at 9 months and mine sleep 7-7 and nap for 3 hours in the day consistently every day.

If you hold off, toddler sleep is really hard to nip in the bud. Do it now and you'll honestly thank yourself later on.

seaandsandcastles 👍🏼♥️

In my antenatal group, all of the babies slept through by a year, except one. The mum of this baby quite nastily ‘accused’ us all of sleep training as she didn’t believe babies could sleep through at that age without it. She said she thought it was cruel. Not a single one of us had done sleep training. We were just lucky. But for me personally sleep was essential. It was what I focused on with my baby and I’d have happily sleep trained if I felt I needed to.

@Blackkoala

Yanbu. I could never bear the idea of controlled crying. It goes against every maternal instinct to leave your baby crying, I simply wouldn’t do it.

My (10mo) baby’s sleep has improved enormously over the last couple of months by us helping him learn to fall asleep in his cot on his own. We have never once left him to cry, but we’ve very gradually helped him settle in the cot by sitting in it with him, patting his back, stroking his face etc. He still wakes at least once most nights, but that is miles better than he was. He also naps really well in his cot now. A couple of months ago he would only contact nap or nap in the car.

Sleep training isn’t necessary imo, and you need to keep doing it over and over anyway. If what you’re doing works for you there’s nothing at all wrong with continuing.

Sleep training can be necessary..as proven by your actions. That was a gentle method of sleep training. Others do it differently, and that’s ok too.

Also, you don’t need to do sleep training again and again either. All it is, is teaching your baby to go to sleep independently, as you did..

Everybody in our house is much happier since we've sleep trained with the Ferber method. Sure, those initial four nights were tough, but we've now had almost a year of great sleep.

But who cares, do what works for you and your baby.

@seaandsandcastles

YANBU. I don’t agree with sleep training.

They can rave about it all they want, but the reality is that their baby doesn’t cry simply because they have learnt it’s pointless. They have learnt nobody is coming to comfort them when they’re hungry/cold/hot/sad/just want a hug.

So they can pat themselves on the back for a piss poor job while neglecting their baby when they need their parent the most if they want 🤷‍♀️

Don’t ever doubt yourself. You’re there for baby when they need you. Parenting was never going to be easy, but it is worthwhile

ODFOD.

@Nimle yes the pram must not be stationary

You can’t train a baby to sleep, it’s a biological milestone

You can teach them to stop asking for help from their parents - but that’s not the same thing. You’d just be teaching her that you don’t respond when she’s upset once the sun goes down

Trust your gut and parent how you would if you’d never read a parenting book/ listened to those who had read parenting books!

1. Your baby your business. If your current set up is working for you don't change it.

2. If your current set up isn't working for you then think ablut what changes you would like to make that you are comfortable with. I detest the term sleep training, it's not bootcamp. But you can work towards supporting poaitive sleep habits and supporting your daughter to settle herself to sleep if thats what YOU want. It doesn't mean sleep throughs, as totally normal for any baby, however they're fed, to wake for a feed in the night. But it can reduce them.

3. Bin the NCT mums. Seriously. They're generally full of a bunch of competitive parents, who like to show off. If you want to continue with them find some friends with similar outlooks and just nod and smile at the NCT lot.

Oh and I never did anything except cuddle and feed my 3 year old to sleep until she moved on in her own time. Now she falls asleep in her bed with me sitting next to her for 5/10 mins and we have a chat about the day - she generally sleeps 7-8.

My eight month old wakens a few times each night and I also settle her back to sleep with breastfeeding - we bedshare, she's my third and final baby and I'm treasuring this time because I know from past experience how quickly it will pass! As long as you're happy with it, I'd just continue to do what you're doing. I always felt like people would talk about their babies "sleeping through" as if it was the pinnacle of all parenting achievements 🙄

@Boshmama

You can’t train a baby to sleep, it’s a biological milestone

You can teach them to stop asking for help from their parents - but that’s not the same thing. You’d just be teaching her that you don’t respond when she’s upset once the sun goes down

Trust your gut and parent how you would if you’d never read a parenting book/ listened to those who had read parenting books!

Christ. Please do not comment on this unless you're an expert in the field.

This is absolute bullshit.

@seaandsandcastles

YANBU. I don’t agree with sleep training.

They can rave about it all they want, but the reality is that their baby doesn’t cry simply because they have learnt it’s pointless. They have learnt nobody is coming to comfort them when they’re hungry/cold/hot/sad/just want a hug.

So they can pat themselves on the back for a piss poor job while neglecting their baby when they need their parent the most if they want 🤷‍♀️

Don’t ever doubt yourself. You’re there for baby when they need you. Parenting was never going to be easy, but it is worthwhile

Get. Bent.

@Boshmama

You can’t train a baby to sleep, it’s a biological milestone

You can teach them to stop asking for help from their parents - but that’s not the same thing. You’d just be teaching her that you don’t respond when she’s upset once the sun goes down

Trust your gut and parent how you would if you’d never read a parenting book/ listened to those who had read parenting books!

“A biological milestone.”

Jesus wept.

@BridgetGetTheGin it goes against the cultural norm of sleep training but that doesn’t make it bullshit. Lots of worries around normal infant sleep have been created by so called experts who very often have no children of their own and no qualifications. There is no research to support sleep training (and yes also none against it except the instinct of mothers) so these experts are the ones spouting bullshit.

There’s some absolute corkers from total and utter dingbats on here whose babies clearly slept like shit and to make themselves feel better they’re spouting the biggest load of guff. 😂

Those who believe sleep training is cruel and just teaches children no one comes if they cry, do you believe, then, that once a child is sleep trained, that’s it - they never call out for a parent ever again because they are too emotionally scarred and damaged. How exactly do you think it works. I’m fascinated.

OP, do what’s right for you - if you’re happy with your child’s sleep, don’t worry about it. If you’re not, then there are a whole range of options option to you.

I did controlled crying at 9 months and my daughter sleeps 7.30-7, with a 2 hour nap consistently now at 2.5 BUT if she needs me or her dad because she feels ill or teething or just wants a cuddle, she will always call us. It’s just that she doesn’t need us there to fall asleep or settle if she wakes in the night. She gets a full night sleep and wakes up happy, my husband and I get our evenings and undisturbed nights. We’re happy and it works for us.

Some people are perfectly happy patting their child to sleep for an hour at age 3. I would not be one of them. x

Sleep training divides mums almost as much as the breast/bottle debate

My point is mums should listen to themselves and their gut and not some ‘baby whispering expert’ or other. If you’re gut instinct is to sleep train your baby then crack on.

Yes @NatriumChloride I can’t see how anyone can think it’s anything other than a biological milestone? Some babies get there quicker than others same as rolling, walking, talking etc

You’re doing great OP. You’re being what your baby needs and she’s a lucky thing. Trust your gut and keep being there for her.

I sleep trained at 13 months and it was the best thing we ever did. She sleeps 12 hours a night minimum plus has a great nap schedule during the day. It is ridiculous to say that sleep training has meant she thinks no one will come to her when she cries if she cries in the night now (rarely) it is because there is a genuine issue, illness, nappy change etc rather than she is just crying because she is tired and grumpy and doesn't want to go to bed. And obviously if this does happen we go straight to her. We do bath, milk and stories, snuggles and then she goes in her cot awake and can self settle. World of difference from having to rock her every night, sit with her and then try and do the transfer to the cot without waking her up. I am a more sane and patient parent thanks to sleep training and she is thriving, a very confident, self assured little girl who still loves cuddles and doesn't hate me for leaving her to send herself to sleep.

We were the same as you. I didn’t want to sleep train. We struggled on for 18 months with multiple wakings every night and eventually I sought the help of a sleepy lady. I would never have imagined I would, but by then I was a shell of myself! I actually think DH has PTSD from it to be honest, he really struggled.

After we spoke to the sleepy lady, we swapped things up and after 3 nights she was STTN and honestly it changed my life! After a bit of a tricky time around 3yo we started sitting with her while she went to sleep which we still do and she’s nearly 5. But to be honest it’s nice, and I would imagine fairly soon she’ll be telling us to leave her alone.

Never say never, because it may be something you consider ons day. But if you don’t ever consider it, that’s fine too.

Your baby’s behaviour is so normal, and HV who say babies shouldn’t need a night feed at 8m? My DD was still eating F all at 8 months so she was still hungry in the night!! Although some babies just sleep well.

I have found people who’ve only had babies who sleep… they just don’t understand what it’s like to have a baby who can’t/won’t sleep. It’s such an emotive subject!!

@EggsellentSmithers
That sounds extremely difficult. I was in bits from lack of sleep for the first wee while. 18 months is a long time to go on limited sleep. Definitely never saying never! Thanks for reassurance that the behaviour is normal, she is slowly but surely getting more into her food so maybe she does get a bit peckish over night. Very emotive subject for sure!

I have a 15 month old who still wakes at least 3 times. We bed share. He would wake more if we didn't. I exclusively breastfed and still breastfeed now. I couldn't do sleep training because it goes against every loving mother instinct I have.

I wonder if I've done him a disservice though. The poor boy doesn't know how to get himself to sleep. He's never learned. So he can't quickly put himself back to sleep when he wakes in the night and is reliant on me. Maybe it will fix itself eventually, but even before having a baby I always believed in the power of good sleep. It's so important.

There are pros and cons.

I will say that people should fuck off out of other people's parenting decisions unless they genuinely believe a child is being abused and/or neglected.