Angela Raynor

[Pixxie7]

I think her comments today were spot on, although not really professional she makes a valid point.

@MarshaBradyo, I don't believe that that many would jump ship, but if they do, a lot of private schools will need to close so perhaps their assets could be sold and donated to help fund the difference?

And if all the private school kids do suddenly get moved to state, then in the longer term, it will create more political pressure to invest in state education, which can only be a good thing.

Not to mention where do they go? We are bursting already in London state sector

New buildings? Staff, resources. It’s not cheap

It seems that Conservative supporters are very cynical and bitter and incapable of believing in anything better than what you currently have which I suppose isn't at all surprising since all Boris's promises have got you is blue passports, empty shelves and no fuel.

'Levelling up' and 'taking back control' indeed!

The assets could be sold to government- how much will that cost?

I want Labour to do better. But I’m so disappointed with the three policies I’ve heard.

It’s as if a party has decided to put anything forward - no matter how unrealistic.

@MarshaBradyo

Not to mention where do they go? We are bursting already in London state sector

New buildings? Staff, resources. It’s not cheap

Either there will be loads switching to state or there won't.

If there a loads, then many of the existing private schools won't survive. They will have to close or merge. Perhaps their buildings could be used and staff could be transferred.

I’m not cynical or bitter. As I say I’ve voted Labour and liked Blair’s approach, but the policies need to work.

@Blossomtoes

Make state more attractive without downsides

How? Where will the money come from? The only way state education will get better is if parents insist on it and vote for parties that prioritise it. It’s never going to be a priority for a party whose MPs predominantly pay for their kids’ education.

Like Diane Abbott?

@MarshaBradyo

The assets could be sold to government- how much will that cost?

I want Labour to do better. But I’m so disappointed with the three policies I’ve heard.

It’s as if a party has decided to put anything forward - no matter how unrealistic.

I don't disagree with the disappointment re Labour. I've long since given up on them having anything really exciting to offer.

I'm not even that bothered about what they do with the charitable status of private schools. There are more important concerns in my view. I just get irritated by the arguments to keep charitable status because some schools give a paltry number of bursaries to kids who quite often aren't from the most disadvantaged backgrounds anyway.

I also don't buy the argument that there would be hoards of kids flooding back into the state sector. There would be some, undoubtedly. But I don't think there would be enough to cancel it out altogether.

This will add further burden to state. Why does £850 per child sound good but not the extra tax that isn’t currently used?

I’m not being rude but I don’t understand what that means.

@Blossomtoes

This will add further burden to state. Why does £850 per child sound good but not the extra tax that isn’t currently used?

I’m not being rude but I don’t understand what that means.

I mean private pay tax for a state place and don’t currently use it. A bit like those who pay private insurance and NI and don’t use NHS. It relieves the state system and if they were to switch it would add burden to state.

@Blossomtoes

This will add further burden to state. Why does £850 per child sound good but not the extra tax that isn’t currently used?

I’m not being rude but I don’t understand what that means.

She means that the state doesn't currently have to fund education through tax for the kids who are currently in private schools. And that this would change if lots of privately educated kids suddenly had to move to the state sector.

We don't know how many would be in this position. Some of the 600,000 or so children currently in the private sector would probably be priced out, but there will be many more who would just dig into their pockets and pay the difference. Plus, of course, a significant proportion of private schools aren't registered as charities anyway, so their pupils wouldn't be affected.

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@Porridgealert

Labour’s business tax reform would look to shift the burden from the high street to online giants,

I don't think anyone would disagree with this but no country has yet been able to do it, even by adjusting their own tax laws. There are international tax agreements that means certain things can't be done. So if none of the western economies have been able to do it to date, how is KS promising to do it. If he knows a way, he should contact the Inland Revenue. Its just another politician's empty promise that can't be delivered. Haven't we had enough of those?

This. Elodie, Everyone would like Amazon to pay more tax. How is Labour going to make Amazon etc pay tax when no other country has managed?

Some of the 600,000 or so children currently in the private sector would probably be priced out, but there will be many more who would just dig into their pockets and pay the difference

Alexashutup how do you know this?

How is Labour going to make Amazon etc pay tax when no other country has managed?

It’s a global problem which can only be tackled globally. I imagine a Labour government would make co-operation with other countries more of a priority than a Tory one.

Labour have the attention of the public and actually seem to be getting rid of the red card hecklers.

But when it’s I imagine the world will follow us in solving a difficult tax issue then it shows how they are just promises atm

And the £15 min wage. Can someone talk about why it won’t collapse businesses who have to pay it and cause inflation?

"Ms Reeves made the remarks as she called on the Government to increase the digital services tax to 12% for the next year, to make sure online companies like Amazon are paying their fair share.

Ms Reeves insisted the whole system of business taxation is not “fair” or “fit for purpose”, adding: “How can it be when bricks-and-mortar, high street businesses are taxed more heavily than online giants? High street businesses pay over a third of business rates, despite making up only 15% of the overall economy.

But when Amazon’s revenues went up by almost £2 billion last year, how much did their tax go up? Less than one per cent. If you can afford to fly to space, you can pay your taxes here on Earth.”

The shadow chancellor also said the digital services tax rise would help the Government freeze business rates – a move that would give small and medium-sized businesses a discount next year.

She said: “Today we are calling on the Government to freeze business rates next year to increase the threshold for small business rates relief, giving small and medium-sized businesses in all sectors a discount next year.

“To pay for those measures, the Government should increase the digital services tax to 12% for the next year, to make sure online companies that have thrived during this pandemic are paying their fair share.”

And the £15 min wage. Can someone talk about why it won’t collapse businesses who have to pay it and cause inflation?

As I was saying earlier if business rates are scrapped that would free up funds to pay their employees properly.

@Andante57

Some of the 600,000 or so children currently in the private sector would probably be priced out, but there will be many more who would just dig into their pockets and pay the difference

Alexashutup how do you know this?

It's a reasonable assumption to make. Firstly, because a significant proportion of private schools don't have charitable status anyway, so their pupils will be unaffected. Secondly, because removing the charitable status of schools would not make the cost of a private education for individual children vastly more expensive, relative to the overall cost that people are already willing to pay. You only have to look at the massive increases that some schools apply to their fees year on year to understand that the prices are pretty elastic. And thirdly because there are significant numbers of international students currently in private schools who would not be eligible to transfer to the state system.

Yes, there will be quite a few families who can only just afford private education and they will be priced out of the market. However, I don't think the number is anything like as high as people like to suggest it is.

(And of course, if private schools are no longer required to invest the vast amounts in bursary schemes to support the poor, as we are assured that they all do in order to earn their charitable status, then the schools will be able to pass these savings back to parents in order to ease the burden. )

I feel for bursary children. I know people seem not to care but I do. What a shame to shut that door.

Re business rates - I don’t know how staff wages compares to the rate

Alexashutup
Thank you for answering my question.

Another question:

don't believe that that many would jump ship, but if they do, a lot of private schools will need to close so perhaps their assets could be sold and donated to help fund the difference?

If the private schools close who would decide if their assets are sold and donated to help fund the difference?
Presumably the government could only insist on this by seizing the properties.

@MarshaBradyo

I feel for bursary children. I know people seem not to care but I do. What a shame to shut that door.

Re business rates - I don’t know how staff wages compares to the rate

Yes, on an individual level, I feel for them too. However, at a macro level, it's hard to justify that level of tax relief for the benefit of so few children. Also, in my experience, there are very few bursary children who are genuinely what I would call disadvantaged. Not least because it takes a certain degree of knowledge and engagement on the part of the parents to secure those bursaries in the first place. I want to see resources going in to support the kids who don't have knowledgeable or engaged parents.

@Andante57

Alexashutup Thank you for answering my question.

Another question:

don't believe that that many would jump ship, but if they do, a lot of private schools will need to close so perhaps their assets could be sold and donated to help fund the difference?

If the private schools close who would decide if their assets are sold and donated to help fund the difference?
Presumably the government could only insist on this by seizing the properties.

It's an interesting question. As they are currently charities, I'm not sure what would happen to their assets if that status was lost. The trustees wouldn't be allowed to take any financial benefit. The normal process when winding up a charity is to pass on any remaining assets to another charity which shares a common cause, but there wouldn't be any private schools left as charities, so who knows?! Personally, I think it would be reasonable for those assets to go to the state, but no idea what the legal position would be.

I think I’m skewed as the school I know well really does reach out and ensure that some students get 100% (or more). It’s very well done

The way I see it private pay tax and don’t use it - which is more of a benefit than the tax relief on the status. It’s a different perspective but it switches it from - these people are getting something they shouldn’t to - they are paying for something they are not using.

Because whilst I’d like to see state improve, Blair won off back of this, I really dislike Starmer for not caring about the reality.

It reminds me of when he said ‘nurseries should probably close’ with no thought to women impacted.

Do it another way imo.

@MarshaBradyo

I think I’m skewed as the school I know well really does reach out and ensure that some students get 100% (or more). It’s very well done

The way I see it private pay tax and don’t use it - which is more of a benefit than the tax relief on the status. It’s a different perspective but it switches it from - these people are getting something they shouldn’t to - they are paying for something they are not using.

Because whilst I’d like to see state improve, Blair won off back of this, I really dislike Starmer for not caring about the reality.

It reminds me of when he said ‘nurseries should probably close’ with no thought to women impacted.

Do it another way imo.

Yes, I can understand those perspectives. And tbh, I'm not ideologically committed to taking the charitable status away from private schools if there is a better way of doing it. I just don't think it's an awful idea and I haven't heard of any better ones yet. From any party!