Angela Raynor

[Pixxie7]

I think her comments today were spot on, although not really professional she makes a valid point.

[quote fromdownwest]**@TooBigForMyBoots* - What are your thoughts on an MP threatening to use acid against a woman she believed to be in a relationship with her partner, calling her a slg and threatening revenge porn?[/quote]
It’s absolutely shocking. The Labour Party thought so too, that’s why it expelled her and she’s no longer a Labour MP. It’s up to her constituents to get her out of Parliament now - that will be an interesting bi-election, I bet Burnham gets parachuted in there.

@Tealightsandd lol. Sure. Always an -ism to explain why the tories are also losing the support of ordinary people. And surely whataboutery is present on both sides as witnessed by the excuses about Johnson ?
So ‘Johnson is corrupt and a liar’ (truth and reality) ‘but but AR swore at him’ (crude but close to the truth)

Sadly I think the last 2 years has shown how NO politicians understand or represent the average British Person.

When I say average, I mean it to exclude the 1% of wealth.

Politicians, do not care for us, they are there to feather their own nest, and further their own needs. The only difference is the Tories more obvious about it.

This country needs a real party that represents the people, not the far left, or the liberal elite.

Sadly, since David Milliband was booted out of Labour, we do not have this.

Tories only win as a F you vote against a Labour party becoming more woke and extreme left wing by the day.

Politicians, do not care for us, they are there to feather their own nest, and further their own needs. The only difference is the Tories more obvious about it.

Not true.

This country needs a real party that represents the people, not the far left, or the liberal elite. LOL

Tories only win as a F you vote against a Labour party becoming more woke and extreme left wing by the day.

Name one 'extreme left wing' Labour policy from recent years?

And what's wrong with being woke?

Woke = alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

I had to laugh when I read ‘liberal elite’. Why not vote for UKIP - as Unwoke as you could be

@elodie77

Politicians, do not care for us, they are there to feather their own nest, and further their own needs. The only difference is the Tories more obvious about it.

Not true.

This country needs a real party that represents the people, not the far left, or the liberal elite. LOL

Tories only win as a F you vote against a Labour party becoming more woke and extreme left wing by the day.

Name one 'extreme left wing' Labour policy from recent years?

And what's wrong with being woke?

And there it is, laughing at others opinions. The reason why Labour has lost your average person.

Off the top of my head £15 p/h minimum wage?

And that is just today!

@elodie77

Woke = alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

At times 'percieved' injustices

Name one 'extreme left wing' Labour policy from recent years?

I think it's more what I'd call the "misogyny" that worries me. I'm left of centre myself. When you abandon the writings of Harriet Taylor Mill for the tweets of Lily Madigan, you've got a massive problem.

Off the top of my head £15 p/h minimum wage?

Do you really think that is extreme?

Housing and living costs (with energy costs going up) are now so extortionate that people doing essential jobs like, you know, cleaning, working in shops or caring for your kids or parents etc cannot exist without an actual living wage. How can you call that extreme?

It's quite difficult to name a labour policy, extreme or otherwise when the 2019 manifesto contains things like

'Labour will scrap UC. We will immediately stop moving people onto it and design an alternative system that treats people with dignity and respect.'
But we have no idea what the alternative system is - obviously even labour don't know what it is because they won't even start designing it until they get in....

I looked through the last manifesto really closely because I wanted to vote for Labour, but tbh no confidence was inspired.

'Labour will abandon tory plans to raise the State Pension Age, leaving it at 66. We will review retirement ages for physically arduous and stressful occupations, including shift workers, in the public and private sectors.

We will maintain the ‘triple lock’ and guarantee the Winter Fuel Payment, free TV licences and free bus passes as universal benefits.'

The state pension age was set when it was expected that it would be paid for 5-10 years (closer to 5). It' s now being paid for 15+ years. I was under the impression Labour usually argued against the triple lock.

And any policy regarding women's rights and safeguarding means nowt if they don't know what a woman is, and why women NEED safeguarding.

I don't think £15 p/h living wage is extreme, no, personally.

But Cervixgate and Don'tSayItGate - yes, I do that's an extreme ideology of the current left, tbh.

'Labour will scrap UC. We will immediately stop moving people onto it and design an alternative system that treats people with dignity and respect.'
But we have no idea what the alternative system is - obviously even labour don't know what it is because they won't even start designing it until they get in....

Heard of this? www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/07/finnish-basic-income-pilot-improved-wellbeing-study-finds-coronavirus

The problem is labour no longer stands for the people working factorys, care low paid jobs they focus on other stuff and target the middle class, the low paid no longer have a part that represents them.

That's an good and interesting pilot but it's not Labour Party Policy is it? (Mores the pity.)

I'd like to know what the plan is. Back to tax credits? Basic universal income? Pilot schemes, and if so for now many years, and where?

But most of all - women's rights.

Uhhuh, but last time I looked we were talking about the Labour Party in the UK (more specifically England) and as I posted above, the manifesto talked about designing an 'alternative' system, not bringing in a ubi.

UBI is a really interesting idea but there haven't really been enough big studies to see how it would work long term. It's the kind of thing which could be effective but it could have many unintended consequences (and over the last 18 months, we've encountered plenty of those).

But we have no idea what the alternative system is - obviously even labour don't know what it is - I meant to point out that there ARE alternatives, that it isn't necessarily pie in the sky and a reason to write Labour off!

And this is kind of what I mean, that on one hand Labour are accused of being 'extreme left' for suggesting a £15 minimum wage and on the other we have people saying: The problem is labour no longer stands for the people working factorys, care low paid jobs they focus on other stuff and target the middle class, the low paid no longer have a part that represents them.

A lot of it is down to people not caring to find out what Labour OR the Conservatives actually stand for and what their track record in introducing policies is, they just believe whatever Daily Mail churns out. And get upset when they are called out on not being very well informed.

Women's and trans rights...it's difficult and I do think the rights of both should be taken seriously. But do you really think the Conservatives have women's rights at heart?

@elodie77

Woke = alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

That’s great.

• Labour aren’t particularly diverse.
• Some Labour supporters love to claim the moral high ground. I’m not that convinced. When there are repeated incidents of Labour members intimidated for various reasons and unable to attend the conference, their may be a case for examining that don’t you think? Or are we just allowed to justify this in various ways as has been the case- victim blaming?
• You said Labour have ‘good people’ . I agree. Keir Starmer is one of them. They also have a significant contingent of pretty nasty bullies and also people who have failed to speak up about the bullying.
• I hate the word woke. I am concerned about racism but am currently worried about encroachments on women’s rights. Am I woke? It’s simplistic. We can have different opinions on different subjects. I also object to Angela Raynor calling someone a racist when I don’t remember her being one of the members who spoke out during the anti semitism scandal.

@elodie77

Off the top of my head £15 p/h minimum wage?

Do you really think that is extreme?

Housing and living costs (with energy costs going up) are now so extortionate that people doing essential jobs like, you know, cleaning, working in shops or caring for your kids or parents etc cannot exist without an actual living wage. How can you call that extreme?

Well It's not extreme unfortunately a lot of companies just wont be able to afford it and have to make redundancies Its a about seven years since i worked in the NHS but as a top band five nurse i was on just under £15 /hour.

[quote fromdownwest]**@TooBigForMyBoots* - What are your thoughts on an MP threatening to use acid against a woman she believed to be in a relationship with her partner, calling her a slg and threatening revenge porn?[/quote]
I think its fucking horrendous. I hope she has been arrested and charged. Why do you ask @fromdownwest?

@elodie77

Off the top of my head £15 p/h minimum wage?

Do you really think that is extreme?

Housing and living costs (with energy costs going up) are now so extortionate that people doing essential jobs like, you know, cleaning, working in shops or caring for your kids or parents etc cannot exist without an actual living wage. How can you call that extreme?

And yet £15 p/h still won't be enough to meet the spiralling costs, particularly of housing.

Smaller businesses will go bust. Far better to have lower wages - but more affordable cost of living, especially secure housing opportunities. To rent as well as to buy.

And this is kind of what I mean, that on one hand Labour are accused of being 'extreme left' for suggesting a £15 minimum wage and on the other we have people saying:

The problem is they don't care it's just a sop to be thrown to the masses , Keir doesn't even support it and it would be a. Massive rise it isn't going to happen labour know this and they don't have to deliver it.

Keir Starmers period in charge at the CPS was whilst Rotherham happened, and also one of his MPs thought people should shut up about abuse and has been suspended.

This is why they are losing in the north people don't trust them at all.

more affordable cost of living, especially secure housing opportunities. To rent as well as to buy.

I completely agree. I don't own property and have always rented. My friend is a single woman with a professional job but cannot afford to rent her own place so is having to flat share in her mid-40s.

Are the Conservatives in any way interested in providing secure housing opportunities, including genuinely affordable rents - NO!!!

The only thing refreshing about it is her refusal to Apologize - usually the knee-jerk reaction by most party politicians, mostly swept under the carpet whilst it becomes yesterday's news.

I don't think Rayner should say I'll apogize "if" someone else does or says that, there should be no more ifs, buts or maybes - just don't apologize.

"Scum" to describe people is in common usage as well as all Rayner's other adjectives, maybe it would be helpful if politicians did use commonly-accepted language a bit more, but then we must also accept that we might hear some 'language' we'd rather not.

@SpindleWorld

I don't think £15 p/h living wage is extreme, no, personally.

But Cervixgate and Don'tSayItGate - yes, I do that's an extreme ideology of the current left, tbh.

Well, personally it may not appear much to you. Lose staff or close down, resulting in vacant shops, reduncancies and loss of business.

However, as a small business owner, it would result in redundancies, I am unable to pay that sum, plus NI contributions, Plus Pension, plus sick pay, plus SMP and run a business that has been smashed by covid and spiralling costs of products.

That response just shows how out of touch you are with how many of us small business owners have to operate.

p.s - £15 an hour would equate to a band 9 in my local council to put things into perspective!