To not understand how children bring anyone joy?

[Bluerainbow86]

I know, I know, no other love like it. But that’s not especially positive is it? Because it just leads to worry and stress.
One of my children has additional needs, which likely doesn’t help, but how does anyone ever enjoy anything with their children?
The only way I can see it is possible is if you have one child, NT, hands on partner, plenty of cash.

No other situation seems to lend itself to anything particularly positive.

Children keep you looking forward & in touch with the world. A lot of the older childless/childfree people I know, their lives basically froze in time the moment their parents died & they haven’t moved on since. One of them talks like her parents died last week, when they did in the late 90s blush

Wow. Just wow. Please don't pass your opinion on to your own children -

I find it hard, I love my children and would do anything for them. But my oldest is autistic and everything is a battle and he doesn't want to do anything apart from sitting and playing games on my old phone that he uses. If we go anywhere he does usually enjoy it but getting ready is usually met with him throwing things, saying he doesn't want to go and not wanting to get dressed. It puts a dampener on the day really, but it isn't his fault. Luckily I don't mind staying in but I feel like his brother is missing out as he does like going out and doing things although he seems happy. I spend most of my time feeling guilty

@Papershuffle

Because anything remotely rewarding and worthwhile is usually incredibly challenging and hard. But it is ultimately fulfilling.

Imho children hold up a mirror to ourselves and sometimes what we see is not particularly pretty! They challenge and stretch us. And that's generally a good thing.

It's not talked about often in films or the media, but genuine love; the sort where you would catch someone else's vom in your hands, or wipe their bum, or happily walk in front of a tram for your child, that sort of love really is the only thing that matters in life and that is what brings you joy, besides things related to health and money.

So there's your answer op... it's love ...and it's very simple and terribly hard all at the same time.

I have love. Love for my DH which brings me untold happiness. Love for my siblings, my nieces and nephews. Love for my dogs.

One thing that jumps out to me here is just how many posters who say they are happy with their children are single.

I would 100% rather have a happy marriage than be single with children.

@mydogisthebest

I didn’t say all childfree couples.

My dogs force me to get up in the mornings and they are far more enjoyable than most children. They don't argue with me, they don't give me any grief. I will never have to worry about them taking drugs, smoking, drinking, getting pregnant or getting a girl pregnant.

Yes but they’re dogs. You don’t have the same depth and quality of relationship with a dog that you do as a child. You can’t ask their opinions, joke with them, ask them to help you out, listen to interesting things they have to tell you.

I’m a huge dog lover, but the way in which we have to outwardly accept the view that pets are comparable to children in order to seem polite is ludicrous.

@LukeEvansWife

Children keep you looking forward & in touch with the world. A lot of the older childless/childfree people I know, their lives basically froze in time the moment their parents died & they haven’t moved on since. One of them talks like her parents died last week, when they did in the late 90s blush

Wow. Just wow. Please don't pass your opinion on to your own children -

Of course I will. It’s my opinion. She is free to ignore it and tell me cats are better.

I have four, the older two are 11 and 8, the youngest are 5 and 2.

The older 3 bring me immense amounts of joy! They are so loving and caring, and are independent enough to not need constant running around after, especially the 11yo. My 2 year old however is really hard work and much harder to enjoy. But they were all like that when they were 2.

I've realised in my experience the years 0-4 are the hardest, and after that it's incredibly enjoyable. But mine are all NT aswell which undoubtedly makes things a trillion times easier

[quote Teapiggies]@mydogisthebest

I didn’t say all childfree couples.

My dogs force me to get up in the mornings and they are far more enjoyable than most children. They don't argue with me, they don't give me any grief. I will never have to worry about them taking drugs, smoking, drinking, getting pregnant or getting a girl pregnant.

Yes but they’re dogs. You don’t have the same depth and quality of relationship with a dog that you do as a child. You can’t ask their opinions, joke with them, ask them to help you out, listen to interesting things they have to tell you.

I’m a huge dog lover, but the way in which we have to outwardly accept the view that pets are comparable to children in order to seem polite is ludicrous.[/quote]
Lots of parents don't have a deep or quality relationship with their children though.

Children can decide to have no contact with their parents or just move far away and have very little contact. Many do.

I have friends with children and dogs, some of whom say they prefer their dogs.

To me dogs and children are not comparable simply because dogs are far better and nicer.

@mydogisthebest I’m sure they prefer their dogs at times because they’re easier and there’s less emotional attachment. But I would be surprised if they genuinely preferred them to the extent where they would save the dogs from a burning building rather than their kids.

It’s fine to say you think dogs are better than kids, but you’ve only had dogs, and I’ve had both. So you can’t really say that with any personal anecdotal experience.

I think having one is the answer.
I remember when I had DC1, I was incredibly happy. I felt completely content. Then I thought it would be lively for DC1 to have a sibling and with the arrival of DC2 came drudgery and every day was a relentless Groundhog Day with financial/practical/emotional stress and worry and arguments.
There are some nice moments but the scales are definitely balanced in the unenjoyable side.

Maybe it will change when they are teens but I think it will get worse, much worse.

To have children comfortably, we d ssc joule have been in the right school catchment, in a house we could grow old in, have support nearby or else afford paid childcare to free up one evening a week so we could remember who we were before kids and what we liked about one another. And a minimum of 150K per year.

@Dancingonmoonlight a very interesting/honest post. I have an only. It’s fantastic for us - but I’m also lucky financially & having a husband who truly pulls his weight and happily looks after her if I want a weekend away with friends or a night out. I feel like I’m winning in being a mum and being ‘me’.

But, but, but… sometimes I feel selfish. Like I’m depriving her of a sibling for my own comforts. We could financially have another child, we just choose not to.

She has lots of cousins close in age and very close aunties, and a fantastic relationship with grandparents. So I’m hoping that’s enough?

Is a happy, chilled mum more important than a sibling?? It’s hard to know

Of course I will. It’s my opinion. She is free to ignore it and tell me cats are better.

I doubt it - you are telling her that not having children will condemn her to a shit life stuck in the past.

Some people having children because they feel they should and attitudes like that don't exactly help. Then they realise they don't enjoy parenthood but it's too late.

Still, it's clear why some people consider the childfree as less than them

@LadyMaid

When they put their little arms around you and give you the sweetest smile or a kiss. Or tell you they love you. Without you initiating it.

You cannot compare that to any other feeling in the world.

That doesn't last though. After 40 odd years of being a mother I realise I'd have had an easier life if I hadn't bothered.

I found going from 0-1 incredibly difficult. I was shell shocked and the adjustment was overwhelming. I also have an Anxiety disorder and the constant worry caused me to develop PND.

That child is now 3 and his baby sister is 7mths and its a million times better. DS is the absolute light of my life and brings me so much joy and happiness. I find DD a little more difficult but now I know each phase passes and things will only continue to get easier. I've just returned from a week in Spain with them which was filled with sheer joy and happiness. It was lovely to spend so much quality time together. My husband is an excellent hands on father though which helps.

[quote Teapiggies]@mydogisthebest I’m sure they prefer their dogs at times because they’re easier and there’s less emotional attachment. But I would be surprised if they genuinely preferred them to the extent where they would save the dogs from a burning building rather than their kids.

It’s fine to say you think dogs are better than kids, but you’ve only had dogs, and I’ve had both. So you can’t really say that with any personal anecdotal experience.[/quote]
I wouldn't be surprised if some of them chose their dogs over their kids to rescue from a burning building.

I am talking grown up children here. Lots of my friends just seem to have so much grief from their children. One has a son who has been to prison, one has a son who is a drug addict, another has a daughter who is an alcoholic. Quite a few have children who are always asking for money.

Even quite a few of the grandchildren are problems. Again, asking for money or items like trainers, phones etc. I am talking grand children old enough to be working.

Lots of posters have quite young children so no experience when they are older. Friends say on the whole they get worse as they get older.

I am glad if you get joy from your children but I just know I wouldn't. Almost every day I am thankfully we chose not to have any. I don't think we would have the happy and loving marriage we have had for over 40 years if we had had children

Hi OP, haven't read the whole thread (just your comments) but didnt want to read and run. I get it - my oldest (same age as your dc1) also has additional needs, cant regulate moods, went through puberty early so the mood swings/challenging behaviour have been dire, exhausting, its relentless. Banning technology etc doesn't work because it makes life even harder for us as parents. Our DC1 behaves very well at school, so we knew she must have awareness if her behaviour. One technique that has really worked for us as a family is this - if my DC1 gets rude/demanding etc then we don't react at all, but give one very calm but firm warning that if she behaves that way again she will be sent to her room for 20 mins. (If DC1 is upset/angry etc then we say "it's OK to be upset/angry, and to talk about it, but it is not OK to speak to us rudely") DC1 then has the chance to behave properly. The second time DC1 is rude or misbehaves, she is immediately sent to her room for 20 mins (& it has to be for the full time, with no leaving room/arguing etc or timer starts again). When times up we clearly explain again that she was sent to her room for behaving rudely, she apologises and its completely forgotten. If she doesn't apologise/behave then she stays in room for further 10 min intervals until she does. We found it breaks the cycle, gives us some breathing space from DC1 when she is being very demanding, and stops our stress levels/her behaviour from escalating. The first few days we did it she spent a lot of time in her room, but then the penny dropped, and it's very rare for us to need to send her there now, her behaviour is so much better, and if she starts to get rude, a warning is usually enough to nip it in the bud. Might be worth a try...X

@LukeEvansWife

Of course I will. It’s my opinion. She is free to ignore it and tell me cats are better.

I doubt it - you are telling her that not having children will condemn her to a shit life stuck in the past.

Some people having children because they feel they should and attitudes like that don't exactly help. Then they realise they don't enjoy parenthood but it's too late.

Still, it's clear why some people consider the childfree as less than them

And what of the comments saying childfree life is the best, and people with children are knackered drudges condemned to a life of servitude? Will you be telling them not to tell their children that, as well? No - because if you have children you’re expected to say how crap it is and nod sagely when people say how much better their pets are.

Whereas when someone says how great being childfree is and how awful children are, everyone’s all ‘good for you, life life to the max hun’ etc

@Bluerainbow86

When I had just dc1 - even though they are the child with additional needs - it wasn’t so bad because I could accommodate them. However their needs became more obvious as they got older and after the birth of dc2 and now I could cheerfully run away and not come back most days. It is just so relentless. I try and do the nice things with them but it always ends badly. Dc1 complains constantly and is rude. He told me yesterday that my face is ‘ugly, old and disgusting.’ I’m just a bit over it all really.

DD1 came for a cuddle and whilst there proceeded to point out all my flaws (unplucked eye brows, roots etc) but instead of letting it upset me I just laughed at her honesty. If I'd been in a more fragile mood it would probably have upset me.

I think your frame of mind is making it hard to see any joy in life. And being a parent is grindingly hard a lot of the time. Are you able to find help via talking therapy? Or find time each day or week just for you?

It may make the rest of the relentlessness easier to bear.

I wish the media would portray parenthood and particularly motherhood and indeed childbirth, realistically. I would have still had DC, but I would like to have known in advance about how many of them don't sleep through the night for years and years. I expected the first year to be sleepless bit to still be waking up multiple times a night with an almost 3 year old whilst being a working mother is killing me.

If he can control this then I wouldn't think its his ASD thats the problem, you need some help

Wrong.

@Bluerainbow86

When I had just dc1 - even though they are the child with additional needs - it wasn’t so bad because I could accommodate them. However their needs became more obvious as they got older and after the birth of dc2 and now I could cheerfully run away and not come back most days. It is just so relentless. I try and do the nice things with them but it always ends badly. Dc1 complains constantly and is rude. He told me yesterday that my face is ‘ugly, old and disgusting.’ I’m just a bit over it all really.

If you weren't 100% sure after dc1 why on earth did you have another child???

Bluerainbow86, your DS1 sounds extremely difficult

In your situation YANBU to just want it to be you and DS2.

Your DS1 sounds like my older brother. My parents were so happy the day he left for university. It was like the darkness in the house was gone, and we could finally all breathe.

I'd phone social services and ask for some respite care perhaps

It's been a bit of a see-saw for me - two DDs, both NT as far as I know, but both very challenging at many of the different milestones. I found tiny babies exhausting and confusing, but nursery and primary years were so lovely, right up to secondary. You know, nativities, little kid parties, all the (sort of) fun stuff.

The years after that were not so fun. Both bullied at school, unhappy, first one anorexic, then the other; both had MH crises. Both not specially easy or pleasant teenagers.

But having said all that... those were the tricky times. I now have one DD of 40 who is a MH nurse and my best friend really, the person who I'd spend holidays with, call on in a crisis, have fun with. And one DD of 30 who recently got married and brought her lovely DH into our family; again they are such good friends to me and DH, so much fun to be with. We are, all five of us, such a happy, close family - they help us, we help them, we have fun together. And there might be grandchildren soon, who knows.

The payoff for the Awful Years finally came and it was well worth it. I can't imagine how my life would be without my lovely "kids". Much less than it is, for sure. But at various checkpoints over the years, these good times seemed a long time coming!

All of my purest moments of joy are to do with my children- often something simple like walking on the beach with them, or sowing seeds, basic stuff like that. But they are moments, not in any way the default. In between, there are horrendous struggles, some laughter and happiness, but mostly it's fairly neutral.

My DC brings me joy. But they are an only, still very little and relatively easygoing. They adore me and it's like having my own fan club... no one else is ever as happy to see me!

OP, your DC sounds like a very different kettle of fish. Older, difficult, unappreciative of what you do, belittling to you. It's not surprising they don't bring you joy and I honestly think just getting through without constantly losing it at them sounds like a big achievement .