To not understand how children bring anyone joy?

[Bluerainbow86]

I know, I know, no other love like it. But that’s not especially positive is it? Because it just leads to worry and stress.
One of my children has additional needs, which likely doesn’t help, but how does anyone ever enjoy anything with their children?
The only way I can see it is possible is if you have one child, NT, hands on partner, plenty of cash.

No other situation seems to lend itself to anything particularly positive.

@HeadPain

WTF

?

2bazookas

How could I not find joy in that little person who holds up their arms and beams at me with absolute love, trust, happiness . Whose face lights up when I arrive at the nursery/school gate or my gtrandchildrens home. Whose antics and chatter, ideas and expressions make you cry with laughter. Whose fresh wonder and curiosity at the world lights up the day. That moment when you tuck a freshly bathed, cuddled, kissed and sleepy little person into bed.When you see them out and about in the world with friends and strangers, being kind, supportive, funny, determined, independent , brave and think " There is a new, good person in the world and I made them ".

Of course there was lots of tiredness and lost temper and mess and some really scary bits along the way, but they are vastly exceeded by the sheer joy and love.
........
You do sound rather complacent, 2bazookas.

Surely you realise that not everyone is so fortunate as to have a 'perfect' child and parents like the op are stretched beyond their limits.

You're very fortunate and that's great, it's what we all want.

@LagunaBubbles

suspect if school saw the way he talks to me they would be shocked

If he can control this then I wouldn't think its his ASD thats the problem, you need some help.

Not necessarily. It’s well known that children with ASD mask at school, and it’s when they get home that all their frustrations come out.

I’m so sorry you are finding things so hard.

I think you are right that people’s enjoyment of parenthood depends massively on a number of hugely variable factors including the health and personalities of the children, the number of children, financial circumstances, involvement and personality of a partner, family support, the nature of your job, where you live, and many other things.

And there’s no shame in finding a really tough situation tough just because someone else finds their (totally different) situation joyful.

@TheGrumpy no Jordan Peterson doesn't suggest giving them away, as I said he devotes a whole chapter this issue and essentially suggests that it is our role as parents not to allow our children become horrible, and if they are we need to tackle this in the many well established ways that we guide and help our children to become nicer, as it is our responsibility, as parents, not to inflict horrible people on the rest of society

Me and DH chose to be childfree so can't speak from experience. However lots of our friends and family have children, almost all grown up now and some have grandchildren.

I would say the majority have found they give them grief, hassle and stress. Most say if they could go back in time they would not have any.

Also lots of them are divorced and blame having children on the breakdown of their marriage.

I would not have wanted all the hassle and worry or the sleepless nights, health issues that giving birth can cause or the strain on our marriage.

I think children can bring joy but most of the time they don't. Woman are sold the fairy tale of children but once they have them they realise the truth and it is too late

You’re not unreasonable for finding it difficult to deal with your son but perhaps his behaviour is getting worse because he’s picking up on the fact you really dislike and resent him. Again, I’m not blaming you for feeling the way you do. It must be hard.
Maybe outright ask him, “why are you so unhappy in life? Why do you constantly want to hurt me? Why does hurting me make you feel better?”

Children keep you looking forward & in touch with the world. A lot of the older childless/childfree people I know, their lives basically froze in time the moment their parents died & they haven’t moved on since. One of them talks like her parents died last week, when they did in the late 90s

I’m naturally quite lazy so having a child forces me to get up, out of bed, to do things with my day & to make future plans. I waste so much less time now.

She’s also hilarious, cute, stubborn and fiery - a right little character who makes everything more interesting (for me!).

I love seeing her little face as she wanders in for a morning cuddle, and also thinking ‘phew’ when she goes to bed so I can go downstairs and have a chat with DH and a nice meal.

I had her youngish so when I’m 40 she will be well into her teens - I hope she keeps me feeling young & modern, and that we can do lots of interesting things together.

Yes some days are tough but isn’t everything worth doing?

[quote Ambersand]@TheGrumpy no Jordan Peterson doesn't suggest giving them away, as I said he devotes a whole chapter this issue and essentially suggests that it is our role as parents not to allow our children become horrible, and if they are we need to tackle this in the many well established ways that we guide and help our children to become nicer, as it is our responsibility, as parents, not to inflict horrible people on the rest of society[/quote]
Children, like adults, have personalities. There are some elements of their personality that you can ‘control’, through behaviour management/nurturing etc, but there are many elements that you can’t.

Sorry I was answering your question literally, I hope that doesn’t sound insensitive I only scanned the responses & didn’t realise you were having a tough time of it OP. I thought this was another ‘why does anyone^ have kids’ thread

OP I'm sorry for all you're going through. Terrible question but do you ever try just good old board games, playing chasing, trying out their computer games, watching films, having competitions to see who can come up with the best jokes, walks? And the next awful question are you negative to him a lot? Do you ever just take him out one to one for ice cream or something? I have 4 and yes EVERYTHING ends in crying or fighting or crankiness but we definitely have more good times then bad. When you say all the time maybe you just need to start doing little things that make you happy, a bath, looking after yourself, doing an exercise class online, reading a book or magazine while leaving him to play? All of these sound tiny and juvenile and I'm sure I'll get jumped on but sometimes we have to be reminded that we are their world and we can make it a great place or a tough one. It is nothing to do with money (believe me we've been in the horrors), it's how happy you are and I'm so sorrybut you sound on the floor. Definitelytalk to someonein real life and try to get help, you all deserve more than this X.

I have Autism. My 2 DC have Autism.

With Autism you have to make reasonable adjustments, such as ensuring we eat somewhere everyone can eat at. However, if either of my children was rude to me they would be punished. Having Autism doesn't mean you can get away with murder. They still need discipline.

My advice: Leave DC1 with their father, and have a fabulous day out with DC2. Block DC1 mobile so they cannot spoil it. Do this once a month as a special treat for you and DC2.

I think that there are many unhelpful posts on this thread. OP I hope you are able to filter out the sanctimonious BS and advice from people who have absolutely no clue what it can be like parenting a ND child.

13 can often be a tough age OP - most teens are testing to their parents. Add on SN and I'm not surprised that it feels tough.

You are not unreasonable to have these feelings. I am a retired teacher as well as a mum of three children now grown. Two of my children were lovely but one was very difficult and caused so much tension and upset in the family. You are dealing with a very difficult child, and need help with your particular situation. Please see your GP for advice because that is where you will get the real help you need to feel better and parent a difficult child.

DD brings me a lot of joy, but it is as you say in your OP. She's currently our only, she's very easygoing and chilled, easy to take places, my DH is very hands-on, we don't have money worries ... it's a lot easier to get joy out of something when the variables go your way.

My AN son brings me immense joy constantly. Until I fully accepted him being who he was I was wracked with anxiety, guilt and fear. Now we take each day as it comes and we are both much happier for it.

It's been years of tough mental labour to get my thinking to a place where I can live with myself and his needs. I really had to put a lot of leg work in. Extensive reading about his conditions and discussions with adults with his conditions. Lots of reading about ableism and the social model of disability.

I like lists (because I'm autistic) so this is what I've done to get us to a pretty good place:

• fought to get DS into a specialist school from Year R, the fight was awful but every day since we have reaped the benefits
• accepted that our family can't and don't do things that other families do, and that an hour trip to the local park is as much of an achievement for us as a packed day out for other families
• read up on ableism and realised that many of my child's issues are actually about lack of access and inclusion and not their fault at all
• been very clear with family members (who don't really understand) about what my child can and cannot manage and been unapologetic if that disappoints them
• equip my home with lots of sensory toys and occupational therapy equipment (peanut ball, swing, trampoline etc etc) to ensure DS can have his sensory needs met at home
• used a 'less is more' approach with language, simplifying my own language, which has really helped DS with his speech and understanding

I wouldn't feel bad about struggling. I still struggle! But you can get yourself to a better place with it all.

Sorry it's tough for you. In my experience of really hard times, very little money and no support, I have enjoyed my children. One has been a massive challenge especially but I haven't ever regretted it,ever. They have brought me more joy and given me a reason to live than I have ever known. You sound depressed, I get that but try to seek counselling or see your GP, you deserve to be enjoying your life too.

I have 2 DC, both with additional needs - they are twins aged 11. DS has quite high needs, still in nappies aged 11 - DD could more easily pass for neurotypical but she’s got a tween attitude yet still couldn’t cross a road on her own and panics if I’m out of sight. Other kids her age are travelling to school on their own - I couldn’t even send her into a shop while I sat outside.

I work full time, self employed, so I gave tight deadlines. Also - for long and complicated reasons I won’t bore MN with - I now home educate them both. They are literally here with me 24/7. So I get how hard it is. I really do.

It is relentless and exhausting. DS is autistic and has dyspraxia, DD is autistic, has a separate language processing disorder and is being assessed for ADHD. But I’m also neurodiverse so I feel I have a good insight into how they think and feel.

Despite it all, I love being with them and they bring me enormous joy. Yes it’s hard work. They can be blunt and don’t always understand that I have a limit, but I bloody adore the bones off both of them. Switching to home ed has been the best thing I ever did as it removed the anxiety and stress that prompted so many meltdowns. Life is calmer these days.

Teen hormones mixed with autism/ADHD can be tricky. When your DS is rude to you OP, what do you do? What do you say? What have you tried? I don’t do “punishments” in my house but actions and words have consequences. Outbursts at trusted loved ones is a common feature of autism/ADHD but that doesn’t mean you’re expected to blithely accept very personal insults.

My daughter has a strong element of PDA so put on the spot, she can appear to be difficult. I know she needs time and space to make a good choice - but I’ve learnt this the hard way over the years!!

I don’t do raised voices - it doesn’t help anyone. But I have very clear boundaries in what I expect and accept - and that helps with the black and white thinking of my DC.

Just wondering - does anyone talk down to you in front of your DC? I’m utterly crap at certain things but I still consider myself intelligent and very capable in other ways. I’m happy to joke about my crapness and my DP often does too. Then I noticed it was reflecting on the way DC spoke to/about me - they are too immature to realise the subtlety of the joking - so I nipped all that in the bud.

Is there any way for you to reconnect with your DS? You’re not enjoying his company so could your relationship do with some work? Could some 1:1 time be found - even if it’s after younger DC is in bed?

I’m sorry you’re having such a tough time.

I have to say, OP. Your posts sound almost like you're in an abusive relationship. It sounds like your son is bullying you so I'm not surprised you're finding it hard to find the joy in things right now. I hope there's somewhere you can get some help, but I agree that SEN or not, he can't be allowed to treat you that way. Presumably he doesn't talk to others like that?

I actually find it interesting/depressing how often young men funnel their rage onto women. It's very rarely the father or male siblings who are bullied and verbally abused in the same way. It makes me wonder if violence against women is really so ingrained within humankind

@Ambersand

I guess I'll be heavily criticised for this but anyway, Jordan Peterson wrote a whole chapter on this subject in his book 12 Rules of Life- something along the lines of 'don't raise children that you don't like'. The point being of you don't like them then no one else will and they will be condemned to live a life of loneliness and isolation. I know your ds has special needs and yet we, on a societal level, need to confront the fact that so many unlikeable children are being raised

The same Jordan Peterson who said that you don't mature until you have a child? The right wing arsehole? Yup, definitely take his advice

It doesn’t matter how much time dc1 has he wants more, nothing is ever enough and he’s never satisfied with anything.
He’s very jealous of dc2 and I believe he’d have coped quite a bit better as an only one.
He’s vile to dc2 as well - part of what sparks him with me is when I stand up for dc2.
I find the negativity from him very hard, he is extremely critical of everyone and has a superior attitude, even though I know actually his self esteem is low.
He does a lot of ‘come on, how stupid can one person be?’ and ‘how much of an idiot are you.’
It’s hard to mitigate because it is ALL THE TIME.
I’ve tried speaking to him about it but he just doesn’t get it. He’s not brilliant with his dad but he is definitely worse with me and women in general. Contempt a lot of the time, I’d say. Does a lot of ‘yeah well, you’re only an X’ about my job.

I very very very rarely about. Occasionally I snap. Sometimes when he’s really mean I will snap or get upset. He always then says he’s joking.
He cannot bear anyone else to do well, very competitive.

@Teapiggies

Children keep you looking forward & in touch with the world. A lot of the older childless/childfree people I know, their lives basically froze in time the moment their parents died & they haven’t moved on since. One of them talks like her parents died last week, when they did in the late 90s

I’m naturally quite lazy so having a child forces me to get up, out of bed, to do things with my day & to make future plans. I waste so much less time now.

She’s also hilarious, cute, stubborn and fiery - a right little character who makes everything more interesting (for me!).

I love seeing her little face as she wanders in for a morning cuddle, and also thinking ‘phew’ when she goes to bed so I can go downstairs and have a chat with DH and a nice meal.

I had her youngish so when I’m 40 she will be well into her teens - I hope she keeps me feeling young & modern, and that we can do lots of interesting things together.

Yes some days are tough but isn’t everything worth doing?

What rubbish that children keep you looking forward. I know many couples who chose to be childfree and none of their lives have frozen in time.

My dogs force me to get up in the mornings and they are far more enjoyable than most children. They don't argue with me, they don't give me any grief. I will never have to worry about them taking drugs, smoking, drinking, getting pregnant or getting a girl pregnant.