To think that 'eat less move more', everything in moderation and CICO is total bollox?

[Honestopinion23]

CICO stands for calories in vs calories out by the way.
I often read the weight loss section on here. Every day there are people embarking on any number of diets and body overhauls and I reckon about 95% of them are unsuccessful. Calorie counting, shake diets, you name it, people always gain the weight back before long. Even celebrities who seem to have done well with weight loss eventually gain it back, e.g. Pauline Quirke. I am watching that new amazon show with Melissa McCarthy and she is also back to being around the same size she was before starting her weight loss. Lisa Riley is another one who lost a lot of weight and most of it is back now. Clearly it's not working and people are making money out of telling fat people that they can be thin if only they want it bad enough or try hard enough. The scientific research shows that once you are morbidly obese, you have an absolutely miniscule chance of getting to and maintaining a normal BMI without surgery. Yes, there will no doubt be people popping up here saying they did just that but you are the exception.

The idea that if you just eat less than you burn is also flawed when a) your body adapts to lower amounts. For instance, those who have gastric bypass and eat v low calories forever still tend to be overweight/mildly obese because their bodies just can't get to a low BMI and b) you're fighting against intense hunger urges that someone who has always been normal weight just can't imagine dealing with.

If I was morbidly obese, I would ditch all the dieting crap, admit that I couldn't fix it and have surgery. I see so many dieting plans just blame the dieter for 'failure' when they're trying to do something impossible. If I was stage 1 obese or overweight, I'd go low carb no-processed for life because I think that is the only thing that switches off the hunger signals in the brain.

Calories aren't as important as nutritional content.

I agree

I agree op, I have hashimoto, it is really much harder for me to lose weight and v little to put it on. My metabolism is fucked.
A calorie is not received the same in all bodies ime, and there is plenty of reasons that have been identified, gut flora, hormones, genetics, reaction to meds etc as well as those who eat excessively for again, many reasons Inc. Mh issues, medication, genetic, hormones. So yes.it is far more complex and those who trot out eat more move more won't accept it as it suits them to continue to judge anyone who is overweight as a gormless greedy lazy bustard.

*eat less move more 🤣

If you don't give your body enough calories to maintain it, it will use fat and cut services to other departments. Different bodies have different ratios for this, so some people will lose a lot of fat, and some will lose very little fat, but suffer from hormonal imbalances, leading to sleep problems, skin problems, mood problems etc. The human body doesn't want to lose fat, it's an energy 'savings account', and nobody wants to deplete their savings.

Carbs encourage the body to keep hold of fat (why would it use up the savings when this ever-so-easy-to-use fuel source is being poured in?) and will keep asking for carbs before it resorts to burning any body fat. That's why we get cravings. If you minimise your carb intake, your body will start to use fat, and once it gets used to doing that, it stops freaking out and yelling 'GIVE ME SOME BREAD/SUGAR' every 3 hours.

So, fundamentally, what's wrong is what we're eating, but not just because it has too many calories; it's also to do with the fact that it provides us with a biological, evolutionary, hormonal drive to eat more of the same, which is almost impossible to resist. Most of us know the 'once you pop, you just can't stop' feeling; the trick is not popping in the first place. The foods that trigger that reaction are the ones with the 'bliss point' ratio of fat to carbs. It's not found anywhere in nature except in human breast milk, so it's addictive (newborns who aren't into it die, so it's evolutionarily programmed) and the big food manufacturers are onto it.

We are a culture of adult bouncing babies.

It takes a different amount of energy for our bodies to process different macronutrients. When we eat 100kcal of carbs, we get about 90kcal to burn/store as fat. When we eat 100kcal of fat, we get about 65% of kcal to burn/store as fat. So, if you eat 2000kcal per day, mostly carbs, that's 1800kcal potentially going on yer bum. If you ate mostly fat, that's only 1300kcal going on yer bum. That's why CICO is hard to calculate, and why people who are 'doing everything right' according to the NHS actually don't really understand what they're going to get out of what they put in.

The NHS 'healthy food plate' is a fat maintenance diet. It's a diet for an already healthy weight person, so that they don't gain or lose any of their already-correct level of fat.

Worth a watch.

@TheFoundations so we need to eat less carbs? I bloody love carbs

YANBU. I have an underactive thyroid. The only way for me to lose weight and keep it off is to have exactly the right balance of CICO. Just burning more than I eat doesn’t cut it. I did lose two stone doing weightwatchers 8 years ago and kept it off for a while. I stuck to the daily points allowance like grim death, exercised like mad and never lost more than a pound a week. I’m now back to pre WW weight.

I know it's well meaning but for those who have never struggled with weight to advise those who have isn't actually that helpful. If you have never had a weight problem congratulations, you have good genes. I do not. I've found I can lose weight but not by calorie counting. I need to be aware of the reasons my body choses to store rather than burn calories.

wellards - Yes exactly. I know that at my age if I ate too much junk food then I would put on weight. Also I think as you get older you become more aware that an unhealthy diet makes you more prone to heart attacks, strokes, diabetes etc.

CICO is definitely a load of bollocks. I can eat 1800 cals of fruit, veg, nuts, seeds
, tofu etc and maintain or lose but if I eat the same amount of cals of junk or starchy food I gain weight. I think whole food plant based eating is the best way to maintain a healthy weight long term. I also thibk the main reason so many people gain the weight back is because they never properly changed their mindset or their unhealthy relationship with food (and I have had bulimia for 16 years so I'm all too familiar with this).

People gain it back because they start eating more calories than they need. The less you weigh, the fewer calories you need to maintain that weight (generally). You'll need to permanently limit calories to keep the weight off. For people for whom overeating is an issue it will feel like they're on a diet for life, which is why it fails.

But weight loss surgery is not necessarily the answer - people can stretch their small stomachs, they can end up malnourished or drink too many calories. Surgery also comes with risks. And there's lots of hoops to jump through, and associated costs not available to everyone.

I say this as someone currently overweight. I haven't always been overweight. I can lose weight fairy easily and have done many different 'diets'. I've entered all of them with the assumption of them being 'lifestyle changes' but the reality is that for someone who has struggles with overeating feeling I'm constantly depriving myself gets old. And I AM constantly depriving myself- a small punt of chocolate is still a deprivation if what you want is a lot of chocolate!

I keep seeing these ads for a fat burning pill you take before bed. Fat burns off while you sleep. Apparently endorsed by Dragon’s Den. But it must be crap surely?

Actually modern weight loss surgery doesn't work by just decreasing stomach size. It seems to have a role in normalising hormone levels and resetting the body's weight set point so it doesn't fight the weight loss in the way it does with calorie restriction. I can't remember more detail but it's explained well by Andrew Jenkinson in "why we eat too much".

@CounsellorTroi

I keep seeing these ads for a fat burning pill you take before bed. Fat burns off while you sleep. Apparently endorsed by Dragon’s Den. But it must be crap surely?

I would think so. If it did work, the NHS would likely provide or at least recommend them due to the costs to them of obesity.

I think where the whole 'everything in moderation' advice really falls down is that it makes it sound like you've only got to put a very moderate amount of effort in. Which simply isn't the case. I remember listening to an obesity expert years ago and him saying the only people that ever maintain significant weight loss are those for who it becomes an obsession. Because that's how much effort it takes to maintain. And that's true for what I've observed around me. Anyone I know who's lost weight and kept it off has done so because they've got really heavily into exercise.

And likewise the people I know who are very slim are quite obsessed with what they eat/exercise.

Have any of the people you cited in the OP said that they are still eating/exercising/maintaining in the exact same way as when they started? I would guess not.

@CounsellorTroi

I keep seeing these ads for a fat burning pill you take before bed. Fat burns off while you sleep. Apparently endorsed by Dragon’s Den. But it must be crap surely?

I'm a watcher of Dragons' Den and I don't recall them ever endorsing a fat-burning pill.

If there were such a thing (without dangerous side-effects), no one would be overweight.

yabu
it's always cico and move more eat less.

just how you arrive at that is different from ways of eating and diet.
you might not consiously count calories but by restricting food groups you aim to reduce them leading to weight loss.

@Namelessnancy

It's scary how determined people are that "eat less move more" is the answer given the enormous failure rate. Does anyone think there is a single obese person who has not tried this? Are all of these people weak willed? How can you explain success and drive in other parts of their lives?

This for sure. When I look at the things I have achieved in my life it never makes sense to me how difficult weight loss is.

Obviously there are the odd exceptions but I think once you hit your late 30s it's a concerted effort to not gain weight regardless if you've been overweight before.

Well it does work doesn't it, hence why they lose the weight. You are talking about lack of self discipline to keep up a healthy lifestyle after weight loss which is entirely different.

You don't have to "reckon" that 95% of people fail to lose weight or gain it all back (plus usually more) - that's a very well-supported statistic and it applies to people who get weight loss surgery, as well.

The type of diet doesn't matter. You have a 5% chance of success. You would be better off spending your time learning to accept the way your body looks and focusing on things you can change, like your actual health and endurance, through sustainable exercise.

There should be a law that anyone who pops in thread to say "BuT I DeFinITeLY LoSt WEiGht and here's how!" should a. have to prove it and b. be required to come report back in five years. It would be an eye-opener, for sure.

There’s so much we don’t understand about the gut and weight and obesity.

This!

Low carb doesnt work for me! I lived with my partners parents for a year whilst we saved for a house. They were on a slimming world regime and wanted us to eat communal meals (everything wholegrain, everything low fat) and my god! Never been so starving and fat simultaneously. Put on a dress size a month and so did DP. We were slim to begin with so initially we thought it was funny, and then it became slightly terrifying.

Weight dropped off as soon as we returned to our old eating style of copious carbs along side copious greens, full fat everything and a meat portion.

With my body anyway - I feel it trusts that when I do eat I will eat properly. I dont snack or have unbalanced meals. And my gut can choose what it wants to digest and eject, as it knows in a short period it will also get a fully supply.

The type of diet doesn't matter. You have a 5% chance of success. You would be better off spending your time learning to accept the way your body looks and focusing on things you can change, like your actual health and endurance, through sustainable exercise.

This is what I am doing, concentrating on being fit and strong rather than losing weight.