To think that 'eat less move more', everything in moderation and CICO is total bollox?

[Honestopinion23]

CICO stands for calories in vs calories out by the way.
I often read the weight loss section on here. Every day there are people embarking on any number of diets and body overhauls and I reckon about 95% of them are unsuccessful. Calorie counting, shake diets, you name it, people always gain the weight back before long. Even celebrities who seem to have done well with weight loss eventually gain it back, e.g. Pauline Quirke. I am watching that new amazon show with Melissa McCarthy and she is also back to being around the same size she was before starting her weight loss. Lisa Riley is another one who lost a lot of weight and most of it is back now. Clearly it's not working and people are making money out of telling fat people that they can be thin if only they want it bad enough or try hard enough. The scientific research shows that once you are morbidly obese, you have an absolutely miniscule chance of getting to and maintaining a normal BMI without surgery. Yes, there will no doubt be people popping up here saying they did just that but you are the exception.

The idea that if you just eat less than you burn is also flawed when a) your body adapts to lower amounts. For instance, those who have gastric bypass and eat v low calories forever still tend to be overweight/mildly obese because their bodies just can't get to a low BMI and b) you're fighting against intense hunger urges that someone who has always been normal weight just can't imagine dealing with.

If I was morbidly obese, I would ditch all the dieting crap, admit that I couldn't fix it and have surgery. I see so many dieting plans just blame the dieter for 'failure' when they're trying to do something impossible. If I was stage 1 obese or overweight, I'd go low carb no-processed for life because I think that is the only thing that switches off the hunger signals in the brain.

I lost 3 stone in a year (3yrs ago) and a further stone the following year. My weight fluctuates by about 5lb over a month if it creeps up more than that I watch my CICO.

I lost weight by burning more calories than I eat it's not about what I eat in one day it's over a week, yes I excercise but if I didnt I couldn't enjoy the foods I do and be this weight.

I didn't like getting fat, i decided to do something about it. I enjoy food so I ensure I have what I want in line with exercise I do to maintain it.

If going away on holiday I will lose a few pounds in advance so I can eat what I like when away

Excercise is part of my routine now
Family life is more active
Food is still a hig part of my life but I dont need a family size bag of crisps in front the TV every night I do have a huge bag and a bottle processco once a week but my calories are balanced out.

You need to burn 500 more calories a day than you eat to lose 1 pound a week, so to loose 2lb a week you need to be burning 2500 calories a day for a 1500 calories daily diet.

Unless you have an underlying medical/ health condition (physical or emotional) then there is no reason CICO wont work its basic science

Yes, but the question is whether they're the same for weight loss/gain.

Yes, but whether or not the calories from Haribo vs chicken and veg soup directly have a different effect on weight loss, I don't think there's much doubt that the effect that regularly eating lots of your calories from sugary shite will have on your health, appetite and blood sugar levels will have an big effect on your ability to make good food choices. The sugar rollercoaster promotes further bad eating.

"I don't think there's much doubt that the effect that regularly eating lots of your calories from sugary shite will have on your health, appetite and blood sugar levels will have an big effect on your ability to make good food choices. The sugar rollercoaster promotes further bad eating."

Yet. there are plenty of people who can eat a bag of haribo and then eat relatively healthily and not put on weight.

I actually lost 6 stone in about 6 months eating less moving more cutting down on crisps and chocolate but not cutting down on food , (and as the gym manager said hardest working person in there). And moving a lot more.

I kept it off for 7 years but depression beat me during the pandemic and currently and drinkong took over.

Yet. there are plenty of people who can eat a bag of haribo and then eat relatively healthily and not put on weight.

A lot depends on how often they eat that bag of haribo, if their body deals effetively with sugar, an occasional big dose won't effect them, if they eat a lot of carbohydrates/sugars on a daily basis, their ability to deal with it effectively can wane and they can become insulin resistant, one of the symptoms of insulin resistance is craving sugary and salty foods and so a vicious cycle ensues.

those people i know who are slender often have treats a big binge dessert but seem to have excellent awareness to moderate the other meals in the days following to balance things out.

I eat whatever I like - but in moderation & not to excess.

I run 25km a week.

Works for me, I'm not fat.

I would love to be able to run @DecadentlyDecisive , its on my list of things I want to achieve in the next year, to be able to run 5k. It's off my list of doable stuff currently because I have a couple of issues with a knee and ankle and I don't think pounding the pavements at 18 stone will do either any good. I am just walking and making myself go up hills a lot more, I have noticed I am recovering quicker when I do, so that must mean my fitmess levels, rubbish though they are, are improving ?

I have one circuit that includes a 1 in 4 hill and is about quarter of a mile long, I can now do it in one go, although I am puce and not able to string a sentence together when I get to the top

Well I've been trying the lower carb thing, no snacks, no alcohol, no sweets, very little processed food and I haven't dropped a single lb!! I'm pretty pissed off as I've been sitting hungry while my family tuck into Maccy Ds treat. I'm going back to straight calorie counting but feel worried that I'm simply doomed to be overweight.

@LadyOfLittleLeisure

Well I've been trying the lower carb thing, no snacks, no alcohol, no sweets, very little processed food and I haven't dropped a single lb!! I'm pretty pissed off as I've been sitting hungry while my family tuck into Maccy Ds treat. I'm going back to straight calorie counting but feel worried that I'm simply doomed to be overweight.

You shouldn't be sitting hungry whilst your family eat, or whilst you're low carb.

What are you eating when you do eat? Not enough protein and/or fat, clearly.

Low carb well done should help you surpress your appetite, and allow you to eat when others are eating, so something in your methods has gone awry...

@LadyOfLittleLeisure

Well I've been trying the lower carb thing, no snacks, no alcohol, no sweets, very little processed food and I haven't dropped a single lb!! I'm pretty pissed off as I've been sitting hungry while my family tuck into Maccy Ds treat. I'm going back to straight calorie counting but feel worried that I'm simply doomed to be overweight.

Have you

a) been eating plenty of fat?
b) drinking plenty of water?

and

c) how low were you keeping your carbs?
d) how long did you do it for?

If you were hungry, then you weren't doing it properly and/or for long enough.

Keeping your carbs sufficiently low (and your fat levels up) will ensure that your blood sugar levels are stable, and the key hormones insulin, leptin and grehlin are balanced. This, in turn, will have the effect of suppressing your appetite. This can, though, take a few days or at least a couple of weeks to happen - you need to transition from your current high carb/low fat (I'm guessing) diet to allow your body to switch from burning carbs to burning body fat for fuel.

@BIWI and @TheFoundations I've basically been reducing carbs from my normal, which is probably my mistake.

So normal for me is probably 2 slices toast for breakfast, pitta bread and filling lunch, sneaky chocolate bar, pasta or rice based dinner. Recently I've been having toast less frequently (eg every other day) salad and cheese lunch (eg with nuts and avocado etc) and meat and veg style dinner. For me this is much, much less carby and I've steered completely clear of sweets. Been doing it for a week BUT I did have carbs last night.

My fats are OK, I think? I like all food and have no allergies. My ibs has been a LOT clearer this last week though. Definitely need to drink more water ...

@BIWI

It takes 4 or 5 days for me; I'd be interested in finding out what other people's experience is. It's an astonishingly short time in which to transition your eating habits, especially ghrelin. We're led to believe by the diet industry that building new, lifelong habits takes concerted effort for an extended period, it's very misleading.

It’s surprising what some people class as low carb too. There was someone upthread who thought that eating whole grains was low carb. Low carb means a reduction in carbohydrates, not just eating healthier food. Also, technically, McDonalds should be a meal that’s relatively easy to do on low carb (not very healthy mind you but still) so no need to sit hungry. If you switch the fries for side salad with mayo and ask for the burger without the bun or sauce and add mayo, you will have a low carb meal. You don’t even need to ask specially - all the machines in their branches have the option of modifying your meals in this way.

If you’re not low carb and increase your fats through nuts and avocado, you won’t lose weight and may even gain. You can only get away with the high fat when you bring the carbs right down so that will explain the lack of progress.

I've just eaten a typical lunch: lentils, spiced chickpeas, baked falafel, endeme beans, tomatoes, sweet potatoes and tahini dressing salad. I don't get hungry. I've eaten well and along with a healthy diet and plenty of exercise I have a BMI of 21 and body fat at 25%. MN is obsessed with low carbs.

[quote LadyOfLittleLeisure]**@BIWI* and @TheFoundations I've basically been reducing carbs from my* normal, which is probably my mistake.

So normal for me is probably 2 slices toast for breakfast, pitta bread and filling lunch, sneaky chocolate bar, pasta or rice based dinner. Recently I've been having toast less frequently (eg every other day) salad and cheese lunch (eg with nuts and avocado etc) and meat and veg style dinner. For me this is much, much less carby and I've steered completely clear of sweets. Been doing it for a week BUT I did have carbs last night.

My fats are OK, I think? I like all food and have no allergies. My ibs has been a LOT clearer this last week though. Definitely need to drink more water ...[/quote]
LOLL, can I suggest cutting out the toast entirely? It is full of carbs and won't be helping. Lots of good breakfast options on low carb if you like eggs. Also are you drinking a lot of milk eg in tea? Those carbs can really add up and you might do better to switch to a lower carb option or cut it entirely.

You do need to be quite strict about it, unfortunately, but you shouldn't be hungry.

@Mercurial123

I've just eaten a typical lunch: lentils, spiced chickpeas, baked falafel, endeme beans, tomatoes, sweet potatoes and tahini dressing salad. I don't get hungry. I've eaten well and along with a healthy diet and plenty of exercise I have a BMI of 21 and body fat at 25%. MN is obsessed with low carbs.

First, you're eating the type of carbohydrate that is more healthy - you're not stuffing your face with chocolate or pasta or white bread or sugary fizzy drinks.

Second, everyone has a different tolerance for carbohdyrate. Some can consume much greater amounts without gaining weight.

That said, I'm glad that your diet is working for you.

MN is only obsessed with carbohydrate when it comes to pointing out that for many people the current recommended diet is not doing them/their weight any favours. If everyone restricted their carbs to the type that you're eating that would be one step forward - but for most people, a diet high in carbohydrate is one which is with highly processed foods, that turn readily into body fat.

Not quite sure why you would want to argue with that though.

Thanks for the pointers everyone! I'll reduce carbs again, cut out toast altogether and try again :)

It's difficult because I was very, very slim for so long, could eat whatever I wanted, and a certain medication destroyed it for me and even after stopping it I've never been the same again :(

Not quite sure why you would want to argue with that though

I'm not arguing but it's really annoying that so many posters are just putting carbs and not stating if they are complex or refined. Low carb isn't the only way to lose weight and keep it off long term.

@LadyOfLittleLeisure

The thing with eating carbs is that the feeling of being starving comes from your body running out of carbs, and screaming at you 'IF YOU DON'T FEED ME, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO START USING THIS BODY FAT!!'

So, if you cut down but still have toast quite frequently, you'll be hovering around that line all the time, constantly running on your last reserves, never getting to using the fat, but often craving food. Does that sound about right?

Try just for a couple of days not having any simple carbs (no flour or sugar is a good way to cover most of this) and see if it makes a difference. Your appetite should drop, and make it much easier to keep it up. Once you start accessing your body fat, your weight will start to change and after a while you'll be able to eat carbs moderately, because your body will have learned that when it gets low on carbs, it doesn't have to have a big old panic; it can just use this bit of fat from over here on your bum or your belly. So essentially, you increase access to fat, and maintain the altered appetite level.

I really love the feeling of 'hungry' I get on a low carb diet. It's nothing like what I always thought hunger was. It's not 'Oh god, if I don't eat soon, I'll faint... I feel nauseous, my stomach is eating itself...', it's more 'I'll eat later this afternoon and I'm really looking forward to it!'

Good luck with your toast free breakfasts! You should see the difference in appetite within a day or two

Ive been low carbing for 9 days i think but because i used to do keto im wondering about the fat. Can your fat be too high if you're having just enough courgettes leeks butter beans and cherry tomatoes eg etc to fail at being "keto" but maybe be having too much butter on a diet that still inclues carbs, albeit veg/beans.

Im eating more veg, more beans, still avoiding grapes, oranges and bananas but not counting out raspberries or bluebarries.

Ive lost 2lbs in 9 days but i need to understand the science of low carb like i understood the science of keto.

The science of low carbing is the same as keto, in the sense that it's about controlling the release of insulin. You do this by keeping your carbs low.

If you're including beans and also not counting your raspberries/blueberries, chances are your daily carb intake is too high.

A low carb diet is high fat, medium protein and low carb. So don't worry about restricting the butter!

Instead of thinking this fat is headed to my tummy if i'm not in ketosis, I'll be calm and remind myself ''insulin down, glucogon enabled''

I weighed the butter I used to fry my mushrooms and chicken earlier and it was only 20g so it wasn't as bad as I thought. The other fat I've had today has been from my keto roll (I still make them), peanut butter, one baby bel, an avocado, soft cheese that I mixed in to my mushrooms. so fat today was 84 grams. I hope that's not too high. I'm NOT HUNGRY though! :-)