To think that 'eat less move more', everything in moderation and CICO is total bollox?

[Honestopinion23]

CICO stands for calories in vs calories out by the way.
I often read the weight loss section on here. Every day there are people embarking on any number of diets and body overhauls and I reckon about 95% of them are unsuccessful. Calorie counting, shake diets, you name it, people always gain the weight back before long. Even celebrities who seem to have done well with weight loss eventually gain it back, e.g. Pauline Quirke. I am watching that new amazon show with Melissa McCarthy and she is also back to being around the same size she was before starting her weight loss. Lisa Riley is another one who lost a lot of weight and most of it is back now. Clearly it's not working and people are making money out of telling fat people that they can be thin if only they want it bad enough or try hard enough. The scientific research shows that once you are morbidly obese, you have an absolutely miniscule chance of getting to and maintaining a normal BMI without surgery. Yes, there will no doubt be people popping up here saying they did just that but you are the exception.

The idea that if you just eat less than you burn is also flawed when a) your body adapts to lower amounts. For instance, those who have gastric bypass and eat v low calories forever still tend to be overweight/mildly obese because their bodies just can't get to a low BMI and b) you're fighting against intense hunger urges that someone who has always been normal weight just can't imagine dealing with.

If I was morbidly obese, I would ditch all the dieting crap, admit that I couldn't fix it and have surgery. I see so many dieting plans just blame the dieter for 'failure' when they're trying to do something impossible. If I was stage 1 obese or overweight, I'd go low carb no-processed for life because I think that is the only thing that switches off the hunger signals in the brain.

Huh? Who has suggested that Fung doesn’t believe in physics? It sounds like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

This thread is about CICO

I don't think you have any idea you are that entrenched, Fung is making plenty of cash out of this.

[quote StiffyByng]@JoborPlay I also lost weight while pregnant, finishing off lighter at nine minus pregnant than when I got pregnant without changing how I ate at all or having morning sickness etc. In fact, my diet was probably worse owing to carb cravings. And then I absolutely piled weight on after each birth.

It’s hard to escape the idea that hormones must play a part. I’ve seen that it’s not unusual to lose weight during pregnancy with PCOS (I have no other real symptoms). But I’ve never been able to get anyone to engage with it and refer me or do any research on what it might mean. Nor is there much online. It’s really frustrating![/quote]
I took the pill in the early 70's when the content was very different from today and I and many others noticed that it made a difference to our weight. Additionally depo provera is known for triggering sudden weight gain.www.verywellhealth.com/will-the-depo-provera-shot-cause-weight-gain-906704 so yes hormones changes in women from whatever cause can cause weight gain. When I was taking the pill and the issue of weight gain was first discussed, it was ascribed to "lifestyle changes!"

sorry, bad link www.verywellhealth.com/will-the-depo-provera-shot-cause-weight-gain-906704

@Againstmachine

Huh? Who has suggested that Fung doesn’t believe in physics? It sounds like you have no idea what you’re talking about.

This thread is about CICO

I don't think you have any idea you are that entrenched, Fung is making plenty of cash out of this.

Fung doesn’t say anything about not believing in physics. He says that diets don’t work. That should be pretty obvious to everyone because diets have a massive massive failure rate. He’s a highly trained doctor and the people who call him a quack tend to be personal trainer bros on Instagram. I think I know who I’d rather trust with knowing the science.

@Againstmachine

Make a valid point, rather than just 'People say he's a quack', because it sounds a lot like you can't back up what your saying because you don't know what you're talking about.

Heaven forbid I believe in physics. You didn't counter with him making money I noticed.

The money argument doesn't hold because lots of massive corporations are making millions out of calorie counting.

The physics argument doesn't hold because, in the words of Zoe Harcombe (full scientific explanation in the link to her video here: 'The human body is not a bomb calorimeter'.

You can't just say 'It's physics', and 'It's money' without any further back up, because you're just making your points look emptier and emptier.

[quote godmum56]sorry, bad link www.verywellhealth.com/will-the-depo-provera-shot-cause-weight-gain-906704[/quote]
Yep, I put on two stone on depo. When I refused to continue I was told the weight gain was only because it increased appetite - they would have no truck with me insisting I had eaten no differently.

The money argument doesn't hold because lots of massive corporations are making millions out of calorie counting.

Eh he's selling boos ect how's money arguement not work.

People get fat again because they're the type to be either 100% on a diet and following it perfectly, or 100% off a diet and eating everything in sight.

That's also why some people give up on a diet if they mess it up even once.

He says that diets don’t work.

But this simply isn't true. For 2 reasons - 1) diets make you lose weight, that's what 99% say they'll do. And they do. I don't know a single diet that says you won't regain if you stop doing it.

2. any reduction in calories or changes to what or how you eat is 'a diet'.

He may mean that mainstream duets don't work for long term weight loss, but the simple statement "diets don't work" isn't true.

Yes, he means that diets don’t work for long-term weight reduction.

The problem also is how much people under estimate how much they eat.

When i started looking in to losing weight i realised my portion control was a joke.
When i started weighing everything,that was an eye opener.

That steak and chips and pepper sauce i had for dinner.

I still have steak just a smaller amount.
I have caulilower rice,hash browns.
I just swopped a lot of food for the less fatty versions.

@TheMamaYo I ate meat a few days a week and lots of dairy, and I thought it would be hard but it is a lot easier meal planning than meat eating ever was. I have a starch, leafy greens, vegetables and fruit for every meal. I usually have porridge with cacao nibs and berries for breakfast or a green smoothie or a sweet potato breakfast bowl. Lunch is usually potato or grains with frozen broccoli and veg. Dinner is rice, pasta grains and potatoes with veg again. My kids and DH have cheese on things occasionally, but other than that, it is an easy and fairly cheap switch.

@Ontherebound34

Yes, he means that diets don’t work for long-term weight reduction.

But surely it’s the same thing though? I mean unless people dieting all do so without the desire to reduce their weight permanently. That’s not true because almost everyone who diets doesn’t want to go back to their previous weight, yet nearly everyone does. So they can’t be effective as a means of reducing weight long-term.

When i started looking in to losing weight i realised my portion control was a joke.
When i started weighing everything,that was an eye opener.

Exactly , there is nothing wrong with a bowl of cereal but when you are having more than twice recommend amount just for breakfast.

People saying why people get fat again.

I can say why I did. 20 or so years ago I lost weight on low carb. It was the first time I got hunger and cravings under control. However, to lose the last stone or so I had to do this in conjunction with calorie counting because I had plateaued, decided to try this and was successful.

Then I had my D.C. I wanted to my fuel eating a full and varied diet. Whatever anyone says good quality whole grains and starchy vegetables do have some important nutrients in them. I put weight on over the years.

Lost it again. Basically, realised my portions were far too big. I live with people who have a far greater calorie requirements. I was matching their portions. So I cut my portions in half. The gap left on my plate was filled with salad or non starchy veg. Started running and going for walks. Do resistance exercises with weights.

Now at nearly 50 I have very similar measurements to when I was 16 (would be able to wear into the same clothes) and am the same weight.

I have a bone small frame. Am at the lower end of healthy BMI because of that. I don't need as much food as a person my height with a larger frame. And my muscle mass is less because of my small frame. I'm not bad at running, though.

@Confrontayshunme

I think you are right but for different reasons. I started eating whole foods plant based as a friend recommended it. Basically an oil free, unprocessed diet of fruit, veg, starch and whole grain. I eat huge amounts of food (including pasta and potatoes and dark chocolate) and it is really so easy to keep my weight down. I stopped counting calories and eat without feeling hungry. I would guess I eat 1800-2000 and burn around 2000 as I am more muscular and active. So if I lose weight at all, it is slow and manageable. I have lost 4 inches from around my waist and stopped my blood pressure medication which is a blooming miracle. The MacDougall Programme and Forks Over Knives are good information about it.

Amazing! Thanks for the tip!

Pasta & chocolate are both processed foods though @Confrontayshunme why are they ok?

Not RTFT

I think the problem really is that a lot of people go on low calories, low fat diet. The problem is these foods aren't satiating so cravings go up. Over time it's hard to keep fighting cravings and people inevitably go back their old way of eating.

If you can eat less calories AND be satiated that's the key to weight loss and maintaining IMO.

Obviously this is anecdotal but im normally what mn would called tiny. I'm 5ft 2 and usually a size 8. Most of my teens and 20s I was a size 4. I ate well overall but I did eat plenty of pizza and pasta and at least one chocolate bar a day. Even after my first baby I was a size 6. Then after my second baby I got the coil and despite eating the same amlut and diet I piled the weight on. I literally got to the point of staving myself in the end because the weight would not shift and I was gaining more and more. When starving myself the weight began to come off but I was surprised at how slowly it was happening to say i was eating next to nothing. I felt cold, tired and stressed doing this.
Got the coil removed 6 weeks ago and the weight has dropped off. My collegue had not seen me for 2 weeks and was gobsmacked at how much weight I had lost in that time. I'm now down to a size 10 and still losing. So I cannot believe its not hormones etc..

@Amdramfan

There's definitely a complex relationship between food/calories-in and our metabolic processes/calories-out.

It isn't a simple equation.

@GaryLurcher19 yes.

7 unfortunately have a horrible relationship with food but on the opposite end of the scale and have spent my life being called a skeleton etc and being forced to eat by family. Food and eating is such a complex thing. I really do feel for those who struggle with weight on either end of the spectrum.

I unfortunately that was meant to say

I do wholewheat pasta but I think consistency is more important that being a stickler for a totally unprocessed diet. A square of dark chocolate on a bowl of porridge or a bit of stiracha or ketchup on some veg makes it easier not to binge on a whole bar of chocolate or bag of crisps in the evenings. I also allow myself the occasional vegan meal out with a bit of oil or nut butter. Overall, 90% of my diet is unprocessed.

I'm trying CICO and have done it many times sun the past, lost loads but always gained it back. I've spent the last month thinking about food every minute of the day. What I can and can't eat, what my next meal will be. I'm not even hungry most of the time I'm just obsessed.

It's horrible. It's a constant battle. I probably will lose the weight but for how long?