We are now being called bodies with vaginas by one of the top medical journals in the land

[JustcameoutGC]

YANBU the word is woman
YABU shut up VAGINA haver

This will probably get shunted back to the naughty corner. But this is something women need to know. Coming soon to a GP surgery near you. As a vagina haver you may be invited for a cervical smear.

This is what the erasure of women looks like. Splayed on the front cover of the journal read by every medic in the land.

Yes it’s interesting that transwomen (aka men) are desperate to define women by their vaginas. My clitoris is way more important to me than my vagina but no one calls me a clitoris-haver, or vulva-haver. Transwomen call us by the bit that’s interesting to men, ironically proving just how make they are.

Being peri-menopausal with another ten years of hot flushes to look forward to is way more significant to me than my vagina. But ‘transwomen’ never talk about the menopause. Becuae they don’t like to me tion it. Because they’re men, and the menopause makes men uncomfortable.

@MaxNormal, nearly 500 votes in. Looks like you are in the small minority who welcome this corruption of language

When I think of the word 'bodies' I think of dead bodies, so it just seems odd to me.

Women, or 'bodies' don't just have vaginas, they have vulva, ovaries, a uterus. They need to include those parts too.

I actually think it is quite damaging for both women and trans women to reduce people down to their sexual organs in name. I'm sure many men and women would tell you that being a woman or man is more than just the sum of your 'parts'.

Why can't they just use 'male' and 'female' because gender is completely irrelevant.

They are trying to be inclusive of women who are trapped in men's bodies, and men who are trapped in women's bodies

Yet an article from the Lancet a few weeks ago about prostate health referred to bodies with prostates as men.

Funny how “being inclusive” only ever results on women being dehumanised.

Fuck that.

@JustcameoutGC think you've mixed me up with the poster I quoted. Easily done, just clarifying

@Lokdok

Great. If it helps encourage someone to have a smear test, maybe a young person grappling with their gender identity or a trans man, then that's a good thing. I don't mind being called a vagina haver, if that will literally save someone else's life. It's disgusting that this bothers you, and Mumsnet is fast becoming a transphobic cess pool.

Point 1: it doesn't help save lives as it excludes a whole vast of women with poor literacy and processing skills (whatever the reason may be)

Point 2: the article is not about cervical smears, it is about how women's bodies have largely been ignored in history and still are. It is about the attitudes in certain countries towards women during their mensuration period, there is no problem defining exactly who is a woman when they need to be banished to a mensuration hut or are not allowed to enter the temple.

It is not saving anyone's life by saying "bodies with vaginas" it is further entrenching the view that women are just inferior to men. How the hell is talking about "bodies with vaginas" going to improve attitudes towards women?

I keep thinking "surely this is the point at which others object" but no, they continue to lap it up and call anyone who objects transphobic. For those of you who are, what is your end game?

Yes, interesting that they have gone for 'bodies with vaginas'. The vagina is not the only, or even the most significant, body part involved when talking about periods.

Women really are just viewed as a hole for men's dicks aren't they? Nothing more.

Nobody is trying to erase women. They are trying to be inclusive of women who are trapped in men's bodies, and men who are trapped in women's bodies. It is also fine to not know which gender you fit in to and to be non-binary

The word women is being being erased. That’s why they haven’t used it

No women is trapped in a mans body or a man trapped in a woman’s body. This is based on emotion it is not a biological fact

Women means adult female human being

@Lokdok

Great. If it helps encourage someone to have a smear test, maybe a young person grappling with their gender identity or a trans man, then that's a good thing. I don't mind being called a vagina haver, if that will literally save someone else's life. It's disgusting that this bothers you, and Mumsnet is fast becoming a transphobic cess pool.

If a transman is unaware that them choosing to align with a particular gender doesn't mean that their biology changes magically overnight then that surely screams the case for providing mental health support for people to accept reality rather than buying into make believe.

@WatchWait

Shit, that's it, isn't it *@naunet*?!

If transwomen must be referred to as women, then it needs to be clear that the women being referred to in the article are....well what exactly?
Otherwise transwomen (henceforth to be known as women) might think they need to get cervical screening.

So women-that-are-not-transwomen need to be called something else. Hence the descriptors of their bodies.

Otherwise you get women and c*s women, because transpeople don't like the trans descriptor.

Is that right? Crikey!

Yep, we can’t exclude males from the word woman, so actual female women need to be referred to as something else, less the men’s feelings get hurt. The irony being that it shows the companies doing all this, know exactly who the males really are, because they’re still pandering to them despite their gender ID.

@Lokdok

Great. If it helps encourage someone to have a smear test, maybe a young person grappling with their gender identity or a trans man, then that's a good thing. I don't mind being called a vagina haver, if that will literally save someone else's life. It's disgusting that this bothers you, and Mumsnet is fast becoming a transphobic cess pool.

And what about women with intellectual disabilities or low levels of English language who won’t understand? Don’t they deserve a chance to have their lives saved? It’s disgusting that you aren’t thinking of them.

@MaxNormal

They are trying to be inclusive of women who are trapped in men's bodies, and men who are trapped in women's bodies

That is a belief system, and should not be conflated with medical reality.

This is spot on. Comments such as those earlier make me incandescent with rage. It’s philosophy/semantics 101 to know that the first step in the obfuscation of reality is to start with the language. I do NOT consent to the omission of the word women - for ANYONE.

@Passmeamenuatthetottenham

Yes, interesting that they have gone for 'bodies with vaginas'. The vagina is not the only, or even the most significant, body part involved when talking about periods.

Women really are just viewed as a hole for men's dicks aren't they? Nothing more.

Good point.

Wont be long now til we’re vaginas with bodies.

Then just vaginas.

@Lokdok

Great. If it helps encourage someone to have a smear test, maybe a young person grappling with their gender identity or a trans man, then that's a good thing. I don't mind being called a vagina haver, if that will literally save someone else's life. It's disgusting that this bothers you, and Mumsnet is fast becoming a transphobic cess pool.

And what if it actually means women who don’t have English as their first language, don’t understand, don’t get screened, and die because of it? Is that OK with you too?

You don’t get to tell women that we have to be OK with being referred to in the most dehumanising ways either, that would be called misogyny.

Actually raging. How can any woman be ok with being reduced to belonging to a group who are no more than ‘bodies with vaginas’. It’s so utterly dehumanising.

@amijustparanoidorjuststoned

Here we go with the trans bashing again.

Nobody is trying to erase women. They are trying to be inclusive of women who are trapped in men's bodies, and men who are trapped in women's bodies. It is also fine to not know which gender you fit in to and to be non-binary.

There, fixed it for you.

You really must be a complete idiot, if you are not being disingenuous! What, exactly, is trapped in the "wrong" body? How do they know that the opposite sex is the "right" body? Do you even realise the meaningless shit you are spouting? Posts like these would be pathetic and laughable, but are in reality dangerous in the current climate.

I said on the other thread that “bodies with vaginas” is especially insulting. My cat is a body with a vagina, her vet would never refer to her like that.

Whoops. Sorry

@Heatherington

Wont be long now til we’re vaginas with bodies.

Then just vaginas.

No no no, that might be triggering.

Front holes.

Why isn't it bodies with a penis and testicles? Why is it right to eradicate the word woman but not man?

[email protected] is the editor of the Lancet. I sent him a very satisfying email with regard to my opinion of the article

@Skysblue

Yes it’s interesting that transwomen (aka men) are desperate to define women by their vaginas. My clitoris is way more important to me than my vagina but no one calls me a clitoris-haver, or vulva-haver. Transwomen call us by the bit that’s interesting to men, ironically proving just how make they are.

Being peri-menopausal with another ten years of hot flushes to look forward to is way more significant to me than my vagina. But ‘transwomen’ never talk about the menopause. Becuae they don’t like to me tion it. Because they’re men, and the menopause makes men uncomfortable.

Ooh, I wish that was true, but there was a panel recently giving workshops to women/bodies with vaginas, on menopause. They had a transwoman on the panel to educate us, because being on cross sex hormones, is exactly like the menopause, so the transwoman was clearly an expert on the subject. I’ll have to see if I can find the link…

Great. If it helps encourage someone to have a smear test, maybe a young person grappling with their gender identity or a trans man, then that's a good thing. I don't mind being called a vagina haver, if that will literally save someone else's life. It's disgusting that this bothers you, and Mumsnet is fast becoming a transphobic cess pool.

Or we could stop with the fiction that how you present yourself to the world in some way changes your biology.