We fecking told you so. Brexit making us suffer.

[flashbac]

Project Fear you said. Sunlit Uplands you said. Sovereignty you said. Can I buy food and heat my house with Sovereignty? Can I put sovereignty in my car's fuel tank? Can I?

It was common sense that this would happen. Common SENSE.

@BoredZelda,

‘The myth about Eastern European lorry drivers depressing wages is provably untrue…’

What is the proof, then?

Tonne fair, let’s be balanced here. Before we blame leaving the EU for all our problems.
Norway and Switzerland are not part of the EI, but are obviously in Europe.
These countries are wealthy and seem to do quite well being out of the EU club.
Likewise what about independent countries, like Canada and Australia? They seem to manage quite well being independent trading countries.
Maybe it’s down to poor negotiating from our politicians that’s caused our problems.

🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱

It’s really nice folk didn’t want us to exploit Eastern European’s, perhaps we could have pressured the governments over the years to provide better conditions for them. Fact is our country cannot operate without immigration and it was the EU migrants who actually provided more wealth into the U.K. than the non EU migrants. Obviously such exploitation of folk wanting to be here is abhorrent- so I hope everyone is keeping a close eye then on potential freedom of movement with India and the post study route where students can remain in the U.K. after graduation without securing a job first, we certainly don’t want the chance of exploitation happening again.
I am a remainer, but leaving that aside, who actually thought that the richest elite in the U.K. would forge ahead with a good brexit for the majority, and the most incompetent guy ever in post would resolve it competently?
5 years no plan, little work, glaring misunderstandings and even more glaring errors - I’d get sacked for a lot less.

I’m going to be balanced again. EU workers that lived here before we left had the right to remain here. No one was forced to leave.
But this is an expensive country to live in.Our house prices are too high as of course are out renting prices.
Why would EU workers chose to live here and be ripped off when they can return home or live in other EU countries?

Covid would have happened without brexit
Energy prices would have risen without brexit
Lorry driving would have been an unattractive profession with or without brexit
Glass vial supplies would have been low without brexit
Inflation would have risen without brexit

But the thing is, in times of disaster, it helps to have solidarity with your neighbors. The EU was expensive and annoying but it was like an insurance policy you hope you will never need. The UK canceled its policy just before disaster struck. It promised its people would save money based on everything being fine and dandy. But when all the bad stuff came it had no insurance. It's fighting all the fires alone. Meanwhile the EU looks at its resources to ensure they are evenly spread. That's why the vaccine roll out was so slow - but everyone (who wants it) is getting their vaccine in the end.

Yes there are a few shitty things going on in Europe now too but no way near the scale of what's going on in the UK.

And honestly the worse things get in the UK, the more people will return to their home countries, the less likely they will return, and the fewer workers there will be.

All those immigrant workers were also there by choice and still have the freedom to leave the shit show thanks to their red passports. Their insurance policy never actually got canceled because they can go home, just like the people of the UK asked them to do.

People arguing it's Covids fault. Well yeah you're right but how equipped we are to deal with Covid is on us.

**I suspect the lorry drivers applying for jobs paying £50k plus, with decent working conditions, are not complaining.

These Daily mail articles are quite misleading. I have a truck licence and not many jobs will pay that kind of money. Not unless they work 70 hours a week, and stay away all week. They’d have to earn bonuses and work every hour.
If all lorry drivers earned 50k per year, there wouldn’t be any job shortages would there?
Don’t believe all you read in the media.

@MsJinks,

We need immigration, as every thriving country does. We do not need unbridled immigration.

And, no, you cannot create a competitive market where people are paid their worth in this country, when others, coming from countries with a GDP/capita less than 1/3 of ours are prepared to camp five to a room and work for less than the minimum wage, as they can still save a lot in terms of their own country.

The EU (and globalisation in general) has the upside of keeping inflation low (as the pool of cheap labour is virtually infinite) and services running efficiently. However, it also has two major downsides: dependency on people whose primary loyalty is not to you (look at PPE and vaccines) and increasing the gap between rich and poor.

It is time that the passionate ‘remainers’ honestly acknowledged that Brexit has upsides and downsides.

It is time that the passionate ‘remainers’ honestly acknowledged that Brexit has upsides and downsides

The people who put in place the current form of Brexit have made it so that the upsides are few and far between.

As anyone with any bit of sense knows, there was more than one way to do Brexit and our government went for the shit version. So, unless that version changes, Brexit is crap.

My young adult DD emigrated to an East European country where she now has residency. She earns local wages, but those wages mean she can live well in her own rented flat in the centre of a capital city- none of which would be possible in the UK.

@EatSleepRantRepeat

If people had spent the last 5 years doing proper planning instead of batching and trying to overturn the result, recruiting and training British people in shortage jobs, and paying people decent wages in the first place we wouldn't be in such a mess. I'm not willing to live in a country which runs on exploiting poor Eastern Europeans and migrants because we won't pay the going rate for goods and services.

As a child of Eastern Europeans thank you for saying this.

The EU only let in a handful for Eastern European countries to effectively use as slave Labour and every time I hear people hear moaning about how Brexit means it's no longer to exploit Eastern Europeans and how unfair it is because it means they can't have their daily quinoa I want to scream.

@Iggly,

I don’t think anyone (with half a brain) believed that, in the short term, which could be a decade, frictional costs of Brexit would not outweigh benefits.

However, being in the EU allowed us to mismanage everything important to an ongoing stable society (fair pay, education etc). We could cover over the cracks with our infinite supply of cheap Eastern European labour, regardless of the cracks to the fabric of society.

If the EU just consisted of the original Northern European members, I could buy into it, as there was, broadly, equality of income, law etc.

When you see pay and conditions being forced up for crop pickers, lorry drivers etc, I see this as a Brexit benefit. And not having infinite choice in Waitrose every time I shop there is a very small price to pay.

@MumsTheWordFact

Many people are looking at this from their own Brexit/Anti-Brexit viewpoint, let's have a little balance. Until earlier this year I used to work for a company that dealt with haulage, and there has been a shortage of drivers for some time now. There were campaigns and plans to try to recruit ex-service personel and various other plans but the big reason for a lack of drivers were poor wages over a span of time. The fact is only 20% of the current shortage of drivers is down to Brexit. We'd still have a massive problem anyway. Its also very likely that the stagnant wages of the last 20 years was enabled by Eastern European workers. We might not be having that much of a problem if after the massive EU expansion of 20 years ago there wasn't immediately freedom of movement for those people. Look, the EU does some good things but to conclude that everything on the lorry driver front would be OK if we were still in the EU is ignorant. Ignorant of the current situation, and ignorant of the historical situation.

@mumsthewordfact we could have put a delay on freedom of movement for newly joining countries, as other countries did. We chose not to. We've blamed the EU for the failings of our own politicians.

When you see pay and conditions being forced up for crop pickers, lorry drivers etc, I see this as a Brexit benefit

That pay rise will be passed onto consumers though won't it? Thereby exacerbating the cost of living crisis. So not exactly a win-win.
And one of the aims of the hard Brexiters (ie - the winners) was to deregulate working conditions?

As anyone with any bit of sense knows, there was more than one way to do Brexit and our government went for the shit version. So, unless that version changes, Brexit is crap.

Yes, agree - though I also think the problems we now face were eminently foreseeable, so Brexiteers need to own what they've caused

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Iggly,

I don’t think anyone (with half a brain) believed that, in the short term, which could be a decade, frictional costs of Brexit would not outweigh benefits.

However, being in the EU allowed us to mismanage everything important to an ongoing stable society (fair pay, education etc). We could cover over the cracks with our infinite supply of cheap Eastern European labour, regardless of the cracks to the fabric of society.

If the EU just consisted of the original Northern European members, I could buy into it, as there was, broadly, equality of income, law etc.

When you see pay and conditions being forced up for crop pickers, lorry drivers etc, I see this as a Brexit benefit. And not having infinite choice in Waitrose every time I shop there is a very small price to pay.[/quote]
We didn’t have to go for the Brexit version that we did. That’s the problem. We could have listened to actual experts instead of trying to have our cake and eat it and fuck off the EU while at it.

@RunningOnFumes,

Win/win is generally an illusion.

Of course it will be passed on. How would you like it if someone cut your pay by 50% so that others cost of living was held down? That is what has happened with these (and other) professions with Eastern European labour.

As I said above, an infinite supply of cheap labour has kept inflation checked for 20+ years, it has also meant that 90% of the growth has gone to the top 10% of earners.

And one of the aims of the hard Brexiters (ie - the winners) was to deregulate working conditions?

Yep and bring in cheap labour from non RU countries.

*EU

If anyone thinks Johnson et al are keen on their mates having to pay more for labour and reduce their millions then they are sadly deluded. This is part of the problem of Brexit - letting the new style Tories run it. I think it’s disingenuous to say the Eastern European’s helped keep wages low and outside the EU we can combat that, as it’s not the full picture and we voted in a Tory government who have no interest in improving wages/lives of the majority- most don’t and can’t have a clue what the average person’s life looks like anyway, so it’s a great soundbite with no substance. There are already new immigration routes giving the lie to it.
I’m also no economist but the natural consequence of sudden uplift in wages is sudden uplift in inflation, which also benefits no one.
Any possible potential benefits of Brexit are never going to be carried out with this government at least - and to be honest I’m not sure why leavers are still happy with the way it’s been managed and the massively different outcomes to those promised.

Totally agree OP. Those who say get over it - why should we - you have caused great suffering and hardship for years to come and for what - a soddin' blue passport and become a joke in Europe. I am in Spain at the moment and there is no shortage of fuel or food - this has bugger all to do with the pandemic - Own Your Shit. Thats all.

A friend of my husband's drives a tanker for a living. He said there are no fewer tankers going out this week than there have been usually, the media is causing the issue. The company who said they have a shortage of drivers, Hoyer, made a third of drivers redundant during Covid and now wonder why they won't go back.

I didn't vote for Brexit btw, but it's more complex than that.

The fact they’re now letting foreigners back in to work is absolutely fucking hilarious, I burst out laughing when I heard. Hope Brexiteers are as happy as I am.

Why would a foreign driver particularly want to work in the UK? The government announces this potential temporary visa, expecting that foreign drivers will be desperate to come here to work. I think that’s unrealistic.

@MsJinks

If anyone thinks Johnson et al are keen on their mates having to pay more for labour and reduce their millions then they are sadly deluded. This is part of the problem of Brexit - letting the new style Tories run it. I think it’s disingenuous to say the Eastern European’s helped keep wages low and outside the EU we can combat that, as it’s not the full picture and we voted in a Tory government who have no interest in improving wages/lives of the majority- most don’t and can’t have a clue what the average person’s life looks like anyway, so it’s a great soundbite with no substance. There are already new immigration routes giving the lie to it. I’m also no economist but the natural consequence of sudden uplift in wages is sudden uplift in inflation, which also benefits no one. Any possible potential benefits of Brexit are never going to be carried out with this government at least - and to be honest I’m not sure why leavers are still happy with the way it’s been managed and the massively different outcomes to those promised.

This a million times.

If you let the vultures in, then you have carcasses. They want carcasses to feed on!