AIBU to think being a lone parent should be a protected characteristic?

[neednotknow]

I dont know if this is controversial or not but I see that there's a lot of discrimination against lone parents when trying to engage with services.

There's a sigma and the assumption that you've failed in life if you end up living as a lone adult with your child but there are lots of reasons why it may happen.

While people are entitled to have their personal opinions, I don't think organisations/businesses should be allowed to indirectly discriminate based on whether a child has two or one resident parents.

(I would include men and women in that definition.)

I'm respectfully open to debate on this. Its more a rail against bureaucracy than anything else.

Disgusted at the replies suggesting being a lone parent is a choice and therefore not the same as race, gender etc...

It is absolutely not a choice for thousands of us who are widows, abuse victims etc..

I dont know if this is controversial or not but I see that there's a lot of discrimination against lone parents when trying to engage with services.

There's a stigma and the assumption that you've failed in life if you end up living as a lone adult with your child but there are lots of reasons why it may happen.

yep seen this in action. Not just me either.

Plenty of discrimination towards single parents, especially mothers, however, it's in a way that you can't really legally fix it.
Dating market for example. Many wouldn't date a single parent. Can you make them?

@Willyoujustbequiet

Disgusted at the replies suggesting being a lone parent is a choice and therefore not the same as race, gender etc...

It is absolutely not a choice for thousands of us who are widows, abuse victims etc..

You can be as disgusted as you want, but that doesn't change the fact that many people chose it. And virtually every parent chose to become a parent, though perhaps not to be a lone parent. So there are two options here. The first is for lone parents have to fill out a questionnaire about their circumstances to be eligible for protected class status. The second is for everyone who broke up with a babydaddy because he worked too much/didn't stand up to his mother/didn't help with the vacuuming - or who had a one night stand and chose to keep the resulting child of indeterminable paternity - would automatically be included. I don't think any of those things are "wrong" per se, but to claim they aren't choices is absurd.

@PurpleOkapi

You claim to think there’s nothing wrong with it, but why should it be ok to discriminate if people chose it? Pregnancy is protected. People choose to get pregnant.

[quote Mumoblue]@PurpleOkapi

You claim to think there’s nothing wrong with it, but why should it be ok to discriminate if people chose it? Pregnancy is protected. People choose to get pregnant.[/quote]
Well the human race would be kind of screwed if people didn’t chose to get pregnant.

@Milkbottlelegs

Well, yeah. As I stated upthread, while I do think people act like dicks to single parents a lot, I don’t think it’s a strong enough case for it to be a protected characteristic, but I want to continue the theoretical anyway because I don’t understand the bee in bonnet people have over our “choice” to be single parents.

Once as a teen, I applied for a job at a supermarket- I disclosed that I’m hard of hearing even though I didn’t need to. I didn’t get an interview. I waited 6 months and applied for the same position, this time leaving the fact that I’m HoH off the application. I got an interview.
Disclosing my hearing impairment is a choice for me. Does that make it ok to discriminate?

Once again, all theoretical. I don’t get why some people seem to think only things you’re born with/ don’t “choose” () should be protected characteristics.

@KurtWilde landlords of student accommodation tend not to be so picky, their houses tend to be pretty trashed already! But I knew a few groups of all men who struggled to find houses in London in their early-mid 20s.

@neednotknow

I dont know if this is controversial or not but I see that there's a lot of discrimination against lone parents when trying to engage with services.

There's a sigma and the assumption that you've failed in life if you end up living as a lone adult with your child but there are lots of reasons why it may happen.

While people are entitled to have their personal opinions, I don't think organisations/businesses should be allowed to indirectly discriminate based on whether a child has two or one resident parents.

(I would include men and women in that definition.)

I'm respectfully open to debate on this. Its more a rail against bureaucracy than anything else.

Absolutely you're not being unreasonable. I set up Single Parent Rights a campaign to push for exactly this. Single Parents are discriminated in so many ways. We conducted a huge piece of research and it found upto 80% of single parents had been discriminated. We have the support of over 20 organisations and a petition calling for this law change.

Examples include that if you're a registered carer and have a partner in work you can access funded childcare, but without the partner (and therefore less support) you can't. Lawyers agree this one is absurd. Landlords regularly won't rent to you (I've had that myself even when I offered more money than the next person who just happened to be a two person family), employers rejecting you for jobs/ promotion and making you redundant - so many single parents have signed NDAs on this one so can't speak out about it, the list goes on. Of course also fees for things, like health insurance that won't do single parent family fees only 2 parent family. Leisure centres that insist you can only buy two parent family tickets at the weekend etc.

In lockdown single parents were totally forgotten. We campaigned for the support bubbles but they only came into effect well after the plus one meet up which single parents with young children couldn't even access so single parents were left alone for months. It really broke so many people's mental health.

Being married is actually a protected characteristic so it would just be about bringing single parents in line with those married/ in a civil partnership.

Please do check out our website for more information on the research and what is happening.

@CrumpetStrumpet

What discrimination have you found op?

Genuine question. I've been a lone parent for nearly two years and haven't really noticed any. If anything people have been very supportive.

Obviously there's the financial implications. Is that what you mean?

It's great that you haven't felt discriminated against as a single parent. Like all groups who are susceptible to discrimination, there's people who won't experience it.

I run the Single Parents Rights campaign and what we find is people are discriminated against by some employers in terms of promotions/ flexible work/ applications, also landlords - we have daily examples of landlords refusing to rent to single parents. The fees charged for days out are almost always more per person for a single parent family than a couple, nowadays some places you can't even get a ticket for one parent family you have to buy a two parent one. There's discrimination in government rules too including the child benefit entitlement a couple can earn upto £100k before losing it but a single parent only £50k yet it's for the child and in single parent homes it's more expensive to raise a child due to (lack of) economies of scale.

Say it LOUDER for the judgmental ones without facts in the back!!!! As for it being a “lifestyle choice”, one of the most absurd things I’ve ever heard, that’s implying single parents just jump into ANY relationship, even an abusive one rather than carry on their “life style choice”.

[quote Mumoblue]@Milkbottlelegs

Well, yeah. As I stated upthread, while I do think people act like dicks to single parents a lot, I don’t think it’s a strong enough case for it to be a protected characteristic, but I want to continue the theoretical anyway because I don’t understand the bee in bonnet people have over our “choice” to be single parents.

Once as a teen, I applied for a job at a supermarket- I disclosed that I’m hard of hearing even though I didn’t need to. I didn’t get an interview. I waited 6 months and applied for the same position, this time leaving the fact that I’m HoH off the application. I got an interview.
Disclosing my hearing impairment is a choice for me. Does that make it ok to discriminate?

Once again, all theoretical. I don’t get why some people seem to think only things you’re born with/ don’t “choose” () should be protected characteristics.[/quote]
Absolutely. And being married/ in a civil partnership is a protected characteristic so if being single is a choice, so surely is the opposite - being married.

Also in terms of how bad the discrimination is, I think in a way that doesn't matter. Most people don't think those in a marriage are consistently severely discriminated, but it's a protected characteristic. As someone who has been married and a single parent and being engaged with single parents, I'd say the discrimination single parents face is actually very pervasive and often extreme.... not renting to them, not employing them, firing them, it's pretty life affecting things which shouldn't be happening to anyone for a random reason based on their personal characteristics.

@nunamenuyear

A protected characteristic has to be permanent so no. Many lone parents meet other partners and some remarry.

Lots of people think this but in reality it doesn't have to be. It's about if people use that characteristic to deny you things e.g. age is protected so it could be you're considered too young or too old for a job, if you can prove it was the age which caused them not to employ you (not lack of experience etc), then you could win a discrimination case on that.

There's loads of protected characteristics which change, being married is a protected status which clearly changes hence this debate. But also others can change like religious beliefs, disability (this can suddenly happen). Pregnancy and maternity of course changes through lifetime too.

@Ionlydomassiveones

In theory, unless deceased, there is no such thing as a ‘lone’ parent. Society should expect that both parents take equal responsibility for the child.

What about women who were raped? Society surely shouldn’t expect a co-parenting relationship then.

@AndThenInTheEnd

I can think of loads!! Hospital appts where you can’t take kids with you Meetings at school where children are not welcome (2 this month at my school) School open evenings where you are only allowed to bring the child in question with you Jobs where irregular shift patterns are expected (finding paid childcare on Christmas Day anyone? Let alone for a night shift)

Those are not discrimination. Inconvenient, problematic- absolutely- but not discrimination. Life is often not easy as a single parent but that does not mean anything that is more difficult than for single parents = discrimination.

There are good reasons why children cannot attend some hospital appointments- it’s not appropriate in some cases. In some cases someone else would have to watch the child during the appointment. Staff aren’t there to babysit. Many children don’t behave particularly well either (from personal experience). It’s hard to conduct a complicated consultation whilst parents are pleading with their child to sit down/keep quiet etc. I know some children would just sit quietly in the waiting room… but many don’t and unless a teen, probably still need an eye kept on them. Hence the ‘no children’ rule for some hospital appointments,

I cannot see how you could justify saying single parents could be employed in a role requiring night-shifts, irregular hours, working holidays and weekends but exempting all single parents from those requirements of the job. Equally, to cover all school holidays they would need far more leave, which would be grossly unfair and employers would have to have find cover. How would you justify paying single parents the same as their colleagues but exempting them from irregular or unsocial hours and double the amount of paid annual leave? It wouldn’t work because their colleagues would have to do more of the nights/holidays etc as someone would have to cover. Equally, to cover all school holidays they would need far more leave, which would be grossly unfair and employers would have to have find cover. How would you justify paying single parents the same as their colleagues but exempting them from irregular or unsocial hours and double the amount of paid annual leave?

The issue is lack of provision of care to cover irregular hours. That is partly due to demand and partly because it would be more costly as employing people during unsocial hours is always going to be more expensive. As. The cost is prohibitive for many, so there is less demand for that sort of childcare- not no need, just less demand. That’s not discrimination, that’s reality.

There are good reasons why children cannot attend some hospital appointments

There are good reasons this is problematic for single parents. Not everyone has support. Or money for ad-hoc childcare (even assuming you could find some). What you are saying, then,is that single parents with this kind of difficulty will need to forgo essential medical appointments, treatments or procedures. Is that acceptable?

Shift work- no ability to access reasonable priced childcare outside if standard hours.

The issue is lack of provision of care to cover irregular hours. That is partly due to demand and partly because it would be more costly as employing people during unsocial hours is always going to be more expensive. As. The cost is prohibitive for many, so there is less demand for that sort of childcare- not no need, just less demand. That’s not discrimination, that’s reality

Yes, childcare is a major problem. But a single parent is still expected to work and is still subject to the jumping through hoops that is Universal Credit. Being sacked because your child is on his 4th covid isolation in 2 months will reault on benefit sanctions. That’s reality.

We need non-profit, 24 hour childcare that is prioritised for single parents taking on shift work/jobs that operate out of the weekday 9-5. We shouldn’t accept anything less as a society.

One massive discrimination I noticed was during first lockdown where children weren’t allowed in the supermarket. I got stopped and asked to leave my child outside (in a rough part of town) and had to really battle to get in to actually buy food, which was necessary as I couldn’t get a delivery for love nor money.

Lone parents are discriminated against when going for jobs - I have been asked ‘if I can manage’ the role and childcare. Also in housing, many landlords and agents refuse to rent to single parents

How do they know You are a single parent?

Because it was an internal role for promotion at a company I have been at for years

@InglouriousBasterd

One massive discrimination I noticed was during first lockdown where children weren’t allowed in the supermarket. I got stopped and asked to leave my child outside (in a rough part of town) and had to really battle to get in to actually buy food, which was necessary as I couldn’t get a delivery for love nor money.

Same here. Just one in a long list of discrimination. I was told by a very officious security guard to leave my DC outside or shop somewhere else. I was asked by another why I couldn't have just left them at home with their dad. I spent a lot of lockdown very angry at the situation from a lone parent angle that families with 2 parents couldn't have understood.

@Shakeyourface

Lone parents are discriminated against when going for jobs - I have been asked ‘if I can manage’ the role and childcare. Also in housing, many landlords and agents refuse to rent to single parents

How do they know You are a single parent?

Because it was an internal role for promotion at a company I have been at for years

That’s got nothing to do with being a single parent and everything to do with being a working mother. A father would never be asked that question. As a married mother of two working FT I get asked all the time how I manage childcare, whether I’m able to travel, etc.

YABU. And silly.

@megletthesecond

I've pondered this in the past. It's not practical though. I'll still grumble about it . I'd like extra annual leave to make up for it being just me over school holidays. I am going to ask for a covid booster despite being just under 50. It's not OK that I'll be left vulnerable in the new year if my spring vaccine has weakened. Whereas 2 parent over 50 families will be automatically given a booster.

Lone parents over 50 will get the top up no? Hardly discriminatory.

I also can't see the extra AL as discriminatory, certainly would be nice to have of course

ruthet excellent contribution, it’s nice to hear from an expert in the field, as it were. I’m off to look up your website x