AIBU to think being a lone parent should be a protected characteristic?

[neednotknow]

I dont know if this is controversial or not but I see that there's a lot of discrimination against lone parents when trying to engage with services.

There's a sigma and the assumption that you've failed in life if you end up living as a lone adult with your child but there are lots of reasons why it may happen.

While people are entitled to have their personal opinions, I don't think organisations/businesses should be allowed to indirectly discriminate based on whether a child has two or one resident parents.

(I would include men and women in that definition.)

I'm respectfully open to debate on this. Its more a rail against bureaucracy than anything else.

@EvilRingahBitch

In practice anything which discriminates against lone parents will normally be found to be indirect discrimination against women, so you can take that approach.

Not if the single parent is the father.

Not if the single parent is the father.

That's why she said normally

Being disadvantaged is not the same as being discriminated against.

Discrimination is ‘unjust or prejudicial’.
Disadvantaged is ‘unfavourable’.

@nosquirrels Not sure if this was in response to my post but I agree - I feel disadvantaged but not discriminated against.

@peachgreen I don’t know why, but I knew you’d be on this thread asking me to explain. I’ve read your post on another thread and I’m sorry for your loss, but even though your husband is gone, I presume your employers have been kind to you? Have you been discriminated against if, say, you get on a bus with your pushchair and someone has shouted a slur at you for not moving pushchair quickly enough to make way? For being a single parent?

How can you possibly think being a single parent is same as being disabled or of an ethnic minority is beyond me.

Sorry for all the people who aren’t single by choice, but it’s not the same.

@AndThenInTheEnd

I can think of loads!! Hospital appts where you can’t take kids with you Meetings at school where children are not welcome (2 this month at my school) School open evenings where you are only allowed to bring the child in question with you Jobs where irregular shift patterns are expected (finding paid childcare on Christmas Day anyone? Let alone for a night shift)

So there would be tiers?

Single parents who have lots of friends and family for support whenever they need?

Single parents who get only well with ex and arrange these things between them

Single parents who can afford childcare?

Single parents who can only get support from family or friends in an emergency?

Single parents who don't want to ask for help because they feel like a burden, may look like they can't cope etc?

Single parents who have absolutely not support and can't afford childcare? How would you prove you are in this category?

People who claim they are like Single parents because their partner works away?

Its not discrimination against Single parents because many Single parents don't struggle in these situations. So where is it discrimination or not discrimination?

@hihelp are you on glue?
I’m sure @peachgreen can speak for herself, but you actually sound like you’re replying to the wrong poster as nothing you’re saying ties up with her post 🤨

But whilst you’re here: still waiting for that how-to on forcing a man to marry me and stay please 👍🏻

Single parent is a lifestyle choice is probably the best thing I have ever read on Mumsnet this year. What a load of utter shite!

@toothpicklover

Single parent is a lifestyle choice is probably the best thing I have ever read on Mumsnet this year. What a load of utter shite!

I suppose I did "choose" to become single again after DCs Dad left us. But as the new relationship I was in was becoming abusive I didn't really have any choice. I dread to think how that would have ended up.

Once more from the top. For something to be illegal discrimination it doesn't have to affect all, or only, people in a protected class. It just has to affect people in that class disproportionately.

Only a tiny proportion of disabled people need a sign language interpreter, but failure to provide one can still be illegal on the grounds of disability discrimination.

Only hiring people over six foot is illegal (unless you're hiring for a basketball team) even though some men are short and some women are very tall.

Some lone parents and some disabled people are wealthy, but it is still illegal to operate a blanket ban on letting your property to benefit recipients because it discriminates against disabled people and lone parents (and hence women).

@AndThenInTheEnd

I can think of loads!! Hospital appts where you can’t take kids with you Meetings at school where children are not welcome (2 this month at my school) School open evenings where you are only allowed to bring the child in question with you Jobs where irregular shift patterns are expected (finding paid childcare on Christmas Day anyone? Let alone for a night shift)

Hospital appointments - health and safety risk (tripping over them or them running into you when playing, causing others injury), inability for frank discussions/intimate examinations or tests (who looks after a baby in a buggy and an irritable 3 year old when you're in an MRI for 30 minutes, looks after your 8 year old whilst you're being told that you have cancer or distracts the 4 year old during colposcopy?), children taking up seating that's there for and needed by patients, etc.

Meetings at school/open evenings - smaller children running round, being ill, falling over, capacity issues for seating and disruption. A room for 35 children doesn't magically become one able to fit in 17 adults, 18 children, 13 siblings and 8 large buggies (scale this up for things in the hall).

Yes, it's irritating not being able to take children swimming because the pool ratios don't allow it (but they're not fans of children slipping over and bleeding poolside or worse, drowning, because the parent genuinely isn't able to handle all 3 at once), the absence of overnight childminding services is a problem but if it's night shift, you just can't do it - any more than somebody who doesn't drive for medical reasons is able to take night shift jobs when the buses aren't running or it's not on a 24 hour public transport route.

These aren't discrimination on the basis of being separated, divorced, widowed or a lone parent from the outset, they're practicalities.

Single parents can choose not to be single?

Don't you have to find someone who wants to be with you or are you saying club them over the head, drag them home and chain them to the bed? Kind of a two person agreement don't you think?

Hey, I'll give it a try. (I'm not single but what the hell).I choose to be with Jason Momoa.

I'll just go park myself by the front door and wait for that knock.

Any second now ..

Single parenting is a lifestyle choice: interesting comment. The alternative, finding someone purely to pay my bills and make my holidays cheaper feels a little like a form of prostitution and not really the point of relationships.
Aside from that, I think that being a single parent is very different depending on the financial situation. I rent, therefore to some I'm poor and my child will suffer not having a permanent base. To others, I have a good job and earn reasonably well - this means I am acceptable in other circles. Either way, the judgement I may face is from twats, the discrimination I may face I am oblivious to. I'm as discriminated against as I feel and I just don't feel it.

Marital status is already one of the protected characteristics AFAIK.

But really, it’s about being single that is often discriminated against, not just single parents. Single people (without a partner either cohabiting or living apart) pay more for most things in life: for example, only get a 25% discount on council tax.

How are we discriminated against?

• asked questions at interview about children/where the other parent is
• first in the queue for redundancy because had to take more time off than the person who has a partner
• inadequacies in the enforcement of child maintenance (not exclusively a single parent issue)

In society generally, assumptions about our levels of education, age, assumptions we were never married, are on minimum wage, don’t work, that we commit benefit fraud, our children are badly behaved etc etc

I certainly agree that there’s judgment and difficulties, but practically I don’t think it could be a protected characteristic.

I will say, as one of the minor gripes, I do wish other mums would stop acting like it’s contagious, or saying “I’m so sorry!” when they find out I’m a single mum. Don’t be sorry! I’m not!

The only problem I found about being a single parent, is when my manager at the time said why don't I give up work. This was when I was trying for child friendly hours. Soon put her straight, said I wasn't going to give up work because I had young kids at the time. Always work and wasn't giving up, been at the same place for 16 yrs now.

@nunamenuyear

A protected characteristic has to be permanent so no. Many lone parents meet other partners and some remarry.

Pregnancy is a protected characteristic…

Seriously, being a lone parent due to the death of the child's other parent is a lifestyle choice? No bloody wonder the country is in the mess it's in if people seriously think like this.
As for an example of issues faced. Housing. Lone parents are much more likely to be on universal credit and therefore excluded from "no DSS" rentals (which still exist) when another parent in the same job, same number of children etc but also married/partnered would maybe not face this problem. Yes there are other people on UC too but statistically this is more likely to affect lone parents. Also being disciplined at work for having time off with a sick child when others can share with a partner. It's ok to say it's not your employer's problem but if you're widowed or your ex won't help what can you do? Leave your job and be sanctioned by UC for making yourself unemployed? Starve? Family tickets, free child with two paying adults etc. Yes I know this is business but it's another thing lone parents are left out of despite statistically being less able to afford these things. Yes you can go without but that's not great for the child who's daddy (or mummy) died is it, to be effectively told you don't deserve the same as your friends. I know some lone parents are in good jobs etc but as a group we are more likely to struggle financially. I'm in favour of lone parent being a protected characteristic.

" I don't think organisations/businesses should be allowed to indirectly discriminate based on whether a child has two or one resident parents."

"Maybe I'm thinking that its the child being discriminated against rather than the parent which is unfair."

"So you can't give examples but feel it's happening often enough it's really impacting your kids?"

• • • "No not my children... but people i know and know of."

"yea im sorry i dont have any non outing examples but i assumed it was a common premise given the last 15 years of media reporting on single parents."

Oh FFS.

@Hihelp

Ok, I'll bite too.

So, what if someone is disabled because of their actions? If they have a poor diet, develop diabetes, and end up blind, or with an amputation? Is THAT a lifestyle choice?

How about if someone is obese- are they allowed a disability badge? After all, it could be due to their lifestyle.
I don't feel that way, btw

@toothpicklover yeah, pretty unbelievable isn't it? It's your fault your partner died/left and now you're on your own (but we'd call you a slapper and a bad mum for introducing a new man too soon too). How typical to blame the one (usually a woman) left to pick up the fallout.

Also the “lifestyle choice” thing is total BS.

Yeah, I broke up with my ex. Because he cheated. I’m not out here about to write “Welcome” across my face so he could treat me like even more of a fucking doormat. And the idea that “you can just start another relationship!” - oh right I’ll just pull a guy off the street shall I? Go check the other thread for people saying that single mums who choose to date are selfish and putting their kids at risk!

@WhereYouLeftIt

" I don't think organisations/businesses should be allowed to indirectly discriminate based on whether a child has two or one resident parents."

"Maybe I'm thinking that its the child being discriminated against rather than the parent which is unfair."

"So you can't give examples but feel it's happening often enough it's really impacting your kids?"

• • • "No not my children... but people i know and know of."

"yea im sorry i dont have any non outing examples but i assumed it was a common premise given the last 15 years of media reporting on single parents."

Oh FFS.

Can I help you? Or do you just swear and use expletives when you don't know what to say?