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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Drinking in pregnancy

463 replies

PurplePizzaCake · 22/09/2021 21:24

AIBU in thinking it's OK to have the odd glass of wine while pregnant? Maybe 2 very small glasses a week?

Yes = YABU and shouldn't drink that much/anything at all

No= it's fine to have the odd glass

OP posts:
drpet49 · 23/09/2021 06:49

** Yes YABU. Don’t be so selfish.

You are actively happy to potentially cause harm to your unborn baby. You know there’s a chance and you’re okay with that. Think about that again.**

^Agree with this.

liveforsummer · 23/09/2021 06:54

I certainly didn't/wouldn't. Not worth the unknown IMO. There was a documentary on the BBC a few years ago that showed the affects of heart rate and movement of a baby on a scan after even a small amount of alcohol and there were more signs of fetal distress from the alcohol than from cigarettes and even heroin. It was eye opening indeed and it has always stayed with me. Previously I'm sore id have been in the little bit can't hurt camp

WoozySnoozy · 23/09/2021 07:02

If you can avoid pate and weird cheese for 9 months surely you can avoid alcohol. It's just the same, a food stuff to avoid.

peoniesandpastels · 23/09/2021 07:12

I see that Emily Oster's book has already been recommended to you, I think if you have questions about risks posed by a number of choices and lifestyle factors in pregnancy her book is a really balanced read.

However, I still don't drink while pregnant. Though lots of people are (correctly) asserting that there is no evidence small amounts of alcohol are harmful, the issue is that we have not been able to clearly determine at what level alcohol does become harmful. It is also hypothesised that an amount that would be harmful for one fetus, may not harm another. With too many unknowns, I feel more comfortable abstaining.

anonymousanne · 23/09/2021 07:29

YABU.

Wouldn't touch a drop personally (and didn't in either pregnancy).
Although your occasional, small drink of 2/3 per week, or even 1 per week, is more than I drink now (rarely, socially at a meal I may have a glass of wine or a cider at a bbq this summer). Personally I think that amount of alcohol is excessive, but we are all different

Mxflamingnoravera · 23/09/2021 07:45

I fostered a 12 year old girl who had suspected FASD, whilst with me she finally got a diagnosis of "partial" FASD. The partial bit was because the birth mother would not disclose her drinking during pregnancy, despite there being clear evidence that she had.

This child had 4/5 of the facial indicators and all of the behavioural indicators. She was born in prison which meant that the drinking must have been in early pregnancy which is the crucial point for early brain development and in particular the development of self regulation and executive regulation. Her brain had developed normally in the later stages but those early months had damaged her brain and so she could not sleep, could not organise herself and was prone to meltdowns that were terrifying to observe and try to help her with.

I did a lot of research and found a guy in Oregan USA, Nate Sheets, who seems to have done more to explain and help children and carers of FASD sufferers than anyone I could find.

Before this I would have said "what harm can a drink do" now I know that depending on what stage of the pregnancy and what particular cell development is happening at that particular time is crucial to how much damage alcohol can do to the developing foetus.

It's more dangerous than heroin during pregnancy.

You drink if you want to, but if you find adhd or other behaviour problems emerging later, look back and ask yourself, was that wine worth it?

I suspect that this will cause me to be flamed on here, but after what I have seen and read about the toxicity of booze to a developing baby, my advice now would be, don't risk it.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472723/

YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:22

@BathMatToe

Oh look... a drinking in pregnancy thread.... shocking. Look out for tomorrow's thread..."leaving kids in car while I pick up essentials. Drip feed... cigarettes.... extra drip feed... I'm on benefits". Try harder
How would being on benefits be a drip feed Confused
YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:22

@seaandsandcastles

Yes YABU. Don’t be so selfish.

You are actively happy to potentially cause harm to your unborn baby. You know there’s a chance and you’re okay with that. Think about that again.

@seaandsandcastles what do you think about women who drink coffee in pregnancy?
YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:24

@Queenoftheashes

So no one has posted any actual evidence that a glass of wine a week is a problem. My research indicates it is not… the impression I get is it’s just another way for people to judge women on how self sacrificing they are. Women must be martyrs. Yawn.
This.

The banana analogy up thread was excellent.

Also "The safest thing is to drink no alcohol" does NOT = "any alcohol is dangerous". The people who think it's the same, well, maybe their mums should have had some vodka in pregnancy and then they'd have been a bit smarter?

YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:24

@drpet49

** Yes YABU. Don’t be so selfish.

You are actively happy to potentially cause harm to your unborn baby. You know there’s a chance and you’re okay with that. Think about that again.**

^Agree with this.

Maybe you and the person who posted that could "have a think" about what awful people you are?
YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:25

@liveforsummer

I certainly didn't/wouldn't. Not worth the unknown IMO. There was a documentary on the BBC a few years ago that showed the affects of heart rate and movement of a baby on a scan after even a small amount of alcohol and there were more signs of fetal distress from the alcohol than from cigarettes and even heroin. It was eye opening indeed and it has always stayed with me. Previously I'm sore id have been in the little bit can't hurt camp
Source?
YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:26

Only on MN is alcohol worse than heroin 😂😂

liveforsummer · 23/09/2021 08:27

You just need to look at the language used by the people saying it's ok. 'Probably' 'should' be ok, I don't 'think' it will do any harm. If probably, should, and the personal thoughts of those with no knowledge are enough then go for it. No there isn't any proof that one or 2 drinks cause any long term harm to an individual however there is also no proof it doesn't. That would be impossible to measure as you'd need to compare the same child under both circumstances. We can't do that so not having a drink is the safer option. We know there is no harm in NOT having a drink after all. That's the only definite.

liveforsummer · 23/09/2021 08:28

@YourFinestPantaloons I'm going in to work now - I'll find the name of the documentary later. In the meantime @Mxflamingnoravera posted similar with a source

YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:29

@liveforsummer

You just need to look at the language used by the people saying it's ok. 'Probably' 'should' be ok, I don't 'think' it will do any harm. If probably, should, and the personal thoughts of those with no knowledge are enough then go for it. No there isn't any proof that one or 2 drinks cause any long term harm to an individual however there is also no proof it doesn't. That would be impossible to measure as you'd need to compare the same child under both circumstances. We can't do that so not having a drink is the safer option. We know there is no harm in NOT having a drink after all. That's the only definite.
Why eat or drink anything in pregnancy other than water and fruit then? Even then, chemicals in water could be harmful.

What we could do, as grown ups, is use our brains to balance out the risks. And allow other women to do the same without shaming them. I know not shaming women about everything doesn't sit comfortably with many people but hey let's give it a try.

YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 08:32

[quote liveforsummer]**@YourFinestPantaloons* I'm going in to work now - I'll find the name of the documentary later. In the meantime @Mxflamingnoravera* posted similar with a source [/quote]
That link gave no suggestion that a small amount of alcohol consumed in pregnancy is dangerous.

TheKeatingFive · 23/09/2021 08:49

We know for a fact that every time we get in a car, there’s a small risk of being in an accident and harming the baby. Yet I’ve never seen anyone handwringing about pregnant women taking inessential journeys to shop, go to hobbies, see friends.

We know for a fact that being overweight can lead to worse outcomes for babies, yet I don’t see women with weight issues being called selfish for not getting their weight under control.

It’s important to scrutinise the cultural context of these judgements. There is absolutely no evidence that a small amount of alcohol is harmful. If that were the case, FASD would have been widespread for centuries and we’d see clear differences in levels post guideline changes. That data is never forthcoming.

However, there has always been a strong moral lens put on alcohol consumption, mostly stemming from the monotheism religions. Combine this with the urge to control the female body and bam, a strong desire to condemn even minimal drinking as a bad thing despite absolutely no evidence to support that.

Ostler is a good read. I recommend that as a starting point.

Mxflamingnoravera · 23/09/2021 08:52

The difference between alcohol and herion on a developing fetus is that alcohol is a tetarogen, an agent or factor which causes malformation of an embryo. Herion is not (although cocaine is).

embryo.asu.edu/pages/teratogens

ManifestDestinee · 23/09/2021 08:57

Of course its fine, but I wouldn't ask on here. The loons think one sniff of a low alcohol beer and your kid will have two heads.

The science says its fine. Who gives a shiny one what MN thinks?

Ragwort · 23/09/2021 08:59

Only on Mumsnet is 'two small glasses of wine a week' known as 'regular drinking' Grin.

I agree with others that Mumsnet has a really skewed view of - shock horror - enjoying an alcoholic drink.

TheKeatingFive · 23/09/2021 08:59

The difference between alcohol and herion on a developing fetus is that alcohol is a tetarogen, an agent or factor which causes malformation of an embryo

I see this term thrown round a lot. It’s not an argument. Where is the evidence that small amount of alcohol are harmful, whatever you want to call it.

YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 09:03

@TheKeatingFive

We know for a fact that every time we get in a car, there’s a small risk of being in an accident and harming the baby. Yet I’ve never seen anyone handwringing about pregnant women taking inessential journeys to shop, go to hobbies, see friends.

We know for a fact that being overweight can lead to worse outcomes for babies, yet I don’t see women with weight issues being called selfish for not getting their weight under control.

It’s important to scrutinise the cultural context of these judgements. There is absolutely no evidence that a small amount of alcohol is harmful. If that were the case, FASD would have been widespread for centuries and we’d see clear differences in levels post guideline changes. That data is never forthcoming.

However, there has always been a strong moral lens put on alcohol consumption, mostly stemming from the monotheism religions. Combine this with the urge to control the female body and bam, a strong desire to condemn even minimal drinking as a bad thing despite absolutely no evidence to support that.

Ostler is a good read. I recommend that as a starting point.

Excellent post
ManifestDestinee · 23/09/2021 09:15

No there isn't any proof that one or 2 drinks cause any long term harm to an individual however there is also no proof it doesn't

There's no proof that eating chocolate in pregnancy is not harmful. Maybe it is. Theres no proof that dancing in pregnancy isn't harmful. Etc etc.
It's extremely unlikely that these things are harmful as we can see people do them a lot and we don't see any evidence of risk. Exactly the same as the odd glass of wine; there has never been any data to show that this is harmful. If it was, there would be by now, and there isn't.

It's not a medical judgement you're making, its a value judgement.

YourFinestPantaloons · 23/09/2021 09:18

The loons think one sniff of a low alcohol beer and your kid will have two heads.

😂😂😂

Ellarain · 23/09/2021 09:23

YABU. No amount is safe.