To ask cleaner if they've been vaccinated?

[daisiesandpeonies]

I am keen to have a cleaner again, my pre-pandemic cleaner is refusing to have the covid vaccine (I know this because we are friends on Facebook and she's constantly posting conspiracy theories.) I felt it would be more respectful to just discreetly get a new cleaner than tell her I'll only ask her back if she gets vaccinated. However how do I tell an agency that I'd only like a vaccinated cleaner? Are they even allowed to ask, so should I?

No YANBU.

I think it’s fine for people to refuse the vaccine because they don’t fancy it. But there needs to be repercussions. It’s these people who are clogging up hospital beds and means the virus continues to spread and wrecks people’s lives. It should be mandatory for all people coming to a workplace, all public places, all shops except essential ones. And a rigorous medical exemption and religious exemption for the very tiny minority. I’m tempted to say no NHS too - it shouldn’t be a pick and choose health service, that’s there when you catch covid. Are the anti vaxxers refusing medical treatment at that point, or do they actually defer to what the experts say!

I’m tempted to say no NHS too - it shouldn’t be a pick and choose health service, that’s there when you catch covid.

Are you going to stop treating anyone who has made choices that contribute to their ill health? That’s a LOT of people.

Practically, an ambulance is called to someone who is seriously ill with COVID and you’re expecting paramedics to check vaccination status then potentially leave someone to die when they find out they haven’t had a jab? Really?

The nhs treats people in need. That’s absolutely the way it should be.

The vaccine is a NHS prescribed medicine - if you wish to opt out of the NHS scheme then feel free.

@Jangle33

The vaccine is a NHS prescribed medicine - if you wish to opt out of the NHS scheme then feel free.

Taking prescription medication is not compulsory.

Seriously. What are you expecting doctors, nurses, paramedics etc to do with seriously ill people? What about someone having a heart attack who hasn’t had a COVID vaccine? Are they allowed treatment? What about someone double vaccinated but has caused their own heart attack by unhealthy lifestyle choices?

It is unworkable and cruel.

OP I would just ask. They may say 'sure, I can show you my vaccine passport', say no to decline to answer but there's still a chance it might be the first one!

I haven't asked my cleaner but we are all vacc'd and I don't have anyone really vulnerable in my family. I would feel differently if I was worried about someone I love

@Jangle33

The vaccine is a NHS prescribed medicine - if you wish to opt out of the NHS scheme then feel free.

Being prescribed something doesn’t make it compulsory to take it, what a weird thing to say . I hope you have a healthy BMI, exercise regularly, don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t drive a car and don’t do any extreme sports.

Anyway, the vaccine hasn’t even been prescribed to everyone. It has been offered to people.

@PurpleDaisies

Anyway, the vaccine hasn’t even been prescribed to everyone. It has been offered to people.

True.

Well, I've deleted all FB "friends" who are blatantly spreading false information about Covid and the vaccine. Discussion is one thing, spreading provable lies is something else. So for that reason the cleaner wouldn't be coming back. I'd happily employ a new one who wasn't vaccinated.

That's like saying you're not going to send your child to school because a child in their class is unvaccinated.

You can't force a vaccine on someone!!

I'm double jabbed but fuck me, this is a joke.

I’m tempted to say no NHS too - it shouldn’t be a pick and choose health service, that’s there when you catch covid.

This is the slipperiest of slopes, I wonder if people have the slightest clue where this could lead if taken to its logical conclusion.

Of course not, it is a gross invasion of privacy.

Can I ask a question/take a quick straw poll?

How many people on this thread believe that the Covid vaccine does NOT reduce your risk of catching (and therefore of transmitting) Covid?

Its really not an invasion of privacy. While we are still in a pandemic and there are still vulnerable people and people getting poorly, its perfectly valid to only want people into your home who are taking precautions to reduce their chances of having covid and spreading it.

@Mreggsworth

Its really not an invasion of privacy. While we are still in a pandemic and there are still vulnerable people and people getting poorly, its perfectly valid to only want people into your home who are taking precautions to reduce their chances of having covid and spreading it.

Again, a vaccine is only one precaution. Someone non vaccinated could be living a far ‘safer’ life in Covid terms than someone vaccinated who goes to concerts/nightclubs regularly etc. So many vaccinated people have dropped all other precautions because they think they’re ‘safe’ now. So really, as well as vaccine status you need to know who they associate with, whether it’s indoors or outdoors, how often they wash their hands, who do the people they live with associate with, do they have kids who go to school with masses of unvaccinated people… why are we stopping at vaccine status?

@TheGrumpyGoat I see your point, but I guess people are stopping there because at least vaccine status is a) binary and b) relatively straightforward to prove. And we rely on it in other area (e.g. travelling to certain countries) so there's a precedent.

@theGrumpyGoat

I get that and I do agree that some people are using being vaccinated as a reason to think they are invincible to covid.

However those things you listed really arent practical to investigate, and one persons idea of not mixing much and being safe is very different from another's. Where as asking someone if they are vaccinated is the only bit of concrete evidence someone can have to no if they are less likely to catch and spread it to them.

Why not just get your old cleaner back assuming they did a good job, my mom cancelled here cleaner due to the pandemic, and is now struggling to get her back at the times she wants.

I don’t think you should ask in the same way that you wouldn’t ask about anyone’s private medical history, but in my experience you won’t need to. As you have found with your previous cleaner, many of those who are un-vaccinated often can’t wait to tell you. I also don’t think yabu to consider ways to minimise the risk to your relative.

I believe in choice. No-one should be forced into any medical intervention. But I have a medically vulnerable colleague who is back in the office who sits next to a proud anti-vaxxer. While she is entitled to her views, I think it’s quite cruel that she persists in voicing them in front of our colleague who is clearly struggling with anxiety about being back at work. The vaccine may or may not make a great deal of difference in transmission rates, but this chap needs support, not constant criticism for his valid concerns. Kindness and understanding goes both ways.

@LuaDipa

I don’t think you should ask in the same way that you wouldn’t ask about anyone’s private medical history, but in my experience you won’t need to. As you have found with your previous cleaner, many of those who are un-vaccinated often can’t wait to tell you. I also don’t think yabu to consider ways to minimise the risk to your relative.

I believe in choice. No-one should be forced into any medical intervention. But I have a medically vulnerable colleague who is back in the office who sits next to a proud anti-vaxxer. While she is entitled to her views, I think it’s quite cruel that she persists in voicing them in front of our colleague who is clearly struggling with anxiety about being back at work. The vaccine may or may not make a great deal of difference in transmission rates, but this chap needs support, not constant criticism for his valid concerns. Kindness and understanding goes both ways.

ah that sounds nasty for your colleague. Can he not move away from her? Risks of covid aside I could not listen to someone spouting that anti vax stuff all day in work. Why is she criticising him? Cheeky mare

@Mreggsworth

Its really not an invasion of privacy. While we are still in a pandemic and there are still vulnerable people and people getting poorly, its perfectly valid to only want people into your home who are taking precautions to reduce their chances of having covid and spreading it.

I honestly do consider it private. There is no requirement for me to share any of my medical or vaccine history with anyone. I am double vaxed and I consider that no one else's business. This whole pandemic has turned people into mini Hitlers about rules and vaccines etc. I don't share any of my private medical information with anyone unless

1. There is a legal mandate for me to do so
2. I am clear about why they need the info
3. I am clear about what they will do with the info

So for example if I was to travel overseas I have no issue showing proof of vaccine as there is a clear mandate for this and policies and procedures have been developed for this.
However if my hairdresser was to ask me I would politely decline to answer as I am not required to discuss with her, she has no right to that information and I am not clear about the reasons why she would want that info or what she intends to do with it.
Would she still want me as a client?
Would it influence her towards me?
Would she tell others my info?
Personal data is private. That includes vaccine and medical history. I am not obliged to share that only in very specific circumstances.
The pandemic definitely has brought out as I say mini Hitlers who are insisting on seeing proof of vaccines and proof of negative tests etc before they allow people into their homes.
Some people like the poster earlier who has blood cancer are very genuine and have very very genuine reasons to be extra cautious. Some other's just seem to like that they believe they have all of a sudden permission to stamp their feet and make demands of others.

Just want to say as well that while I am against unwarranted requests about my vaccine info, I can not abide people who are totally anti vax and spout loads of nonsense that they have clearly gotten from you tube. This whole vaccine thing has shown rather nasty sides of people, from both pro vax who sometimes take it too far and anti vax who also take it too far.
Last year it was all we must pull together, be kind, etc etc.
This year it is all everybody turning on each other about vaccines. It is very sad.

OP, you are free to do as you please, but the chances of her catching Covid from cleaning other peoples’ houses, or passing Covid on to you by touching items in your house, is absolutely minuscule. Possibly zero.

Covid is transmitted by prolonged, close person to person contact.

@itsgrand

It has bought out the worse in people. And I do get your point that people could be asking just to be inflammatory and self righteous.

But, as you said there are people with genuine reasons. And if you decline to answer your vaccine status as you deem it private that could put someone in a very uncomfortable situation.

I wouldn't ask someone providing a service to me their vaccine status just because it isnt that important to me. however my FIL is on chemo and is just picking up every bug and infection going to the point that we have to wear gloves, masks, distance and even shower straight away if we have been to busy places when we enter, he has also made it compulsory that his visitors have the vaccine.

What if he had to have urgent repair done to his house, he is not going to risk his health by not checking the workers vaccine status just incase this offends them.

A hair dresser could be in a similar position that for whatever reasons she has to be extra cautious and her way of doing that is trying where possible to not mix with unvaccinated people. There is no harm in that and it isnt discrimination, it's someone doing what is best for them and their health. I dont think someone wanting to be private about a vaccine during a pandemic trumps someones right to feel safe and to take steps to control their own risks.

@HermioneWeasley

OP, you are free to do as you please, but the chances of her catching Covid from cleaning other peoples’ houses, or passing Covid on to you by touching items in your house, is absolutely minuscule. Possibly zero.

Covid is transmitted by prolonged, close person to person contact.

So how did my aunt catch and die from Covid last May? She'd been shielding since March, no face to face contact with anyone. Her shopping was delivered and left at the door. She didn't leave her home and no one went in. The only way she could have caught it is from her shopping or post and medication through the letterbox. She was one of the fittest pensioners I've ever known and was doing zoom exercise and yoga classes up to the week before she died. She was shielding because she'd had a kidney transplant 25 years ago.