Page 6 | To think this is a date?

fiveinfulham · 21/09/2021 18:15

is not ‘with’ - sorry!

slashlover · 21/09/2021 18:41

He's never been a colleague though, they met through a sport.

It's a shame that you can't imagine a man and a woman could be friends because of your experience that Well quite a lot, as it (almost) happened.

fiveinfulham · 21/09/2021 18:46

I thought the OP said she met him at work over ten years ago and has been travelling to meet him since then. But she has never met his wife in this time.

isadoradancing123 · 21/09/2021 18:46

Well if i was his wife i would not be happy, at all

AnotherFruitcake · 21/09/2021 19:29

@fiveinfulham

I’ve no idea if it’s a ‘lurid’ take, I’m just being honest. I wouldn’t dream of going for lunch, let alone a whole day, with a friend’s husband, or someone I’d met through work. I would be under no delusions about the impression that would give off. I genuinely don’t see how it can work.

When I was about 26, there was a man I worked with. We were in a group of about 10 and we got into a habit socialising a fair bit. It was good fun. I was in a relationship, so was he - well, what could possibly go wrong? Well quite a lot, as it (almost) happened. Every time I have tried to have a make friendships it has been more hassle than it’s worth, frankly. Maybe it’s just me (but I don’t think it is).

I must have met hundreds of men when I was working. Sure there would be group drinks and all that kind of thing. Perhaps I’d go to lunch if it was purely business. But I wouldn’t be going off with them for the day! I’d wonder what on earth the wife would think of me and I would never put another woman in that position. I’d be mortified, to be honest.

I must have about 50 female friends and I genuinely don’t know anyone who would do this. Being married or not has nothing to do with it. He’s married, that’s all I need to know.

But this isn’t ‘a friend’s husband’, it’s the OP’s longterm platonic friend, whom she’s presumably managed not to shag for many years. Because, contrary to what some sex-obsessed Mary Whitehouses on these threads appear to think, it’s perfectly possible for sex not to feature at all in a male-female friendship, regardless of the marital status of either party.

I’ve probably also met many, many male colleagues/work connections down the years. Three of the number only have become close friends, because I don’t make friends with everyone make any more than I do with everyone female I meet. One of their wives also later became a good friend, another’s wife I’ve only met once or twice in 18 years. The third has been married, divorced and is now in a new relationship over the years. Their marital status is irrelevant to our friendship, because I am not dating them. Also, I’m happily married myself.

fiveinfulham · 21/09/2021 19:48

“it’s perfectly possible for sex not to feature at all in a male-female friendship, regardless of the marital status of either party. “

Well I’ll take your word for it that it’s possible. But I think it’s very rare indeed for that to be the case. By that, I don’t mean all male-female ‘friendships’ will lead to sex. Not at all. But there’s invariably some level of flirtation, mutual gratification, or ‘frisson’ as someone else referred to it. Or you might end up confiding in them about your relationship which is a whole can of worms. I don’t think it’s possible to be as unguarded with a man as you would with a female friend. It’s always going to be a different dynamic. You can never be sure what they’re thinking.

AveryGoodlay · 21/09/2021 20:47

What i would do is send a gift to the wife. Something like an orchid or a bunch of flowers. ie just a gift because..... I have no problem with my partner having female friends. However, if one of them suddenly did this after twenty years I'd think she was weird and possibly trying to tell me something.

Of course this type of thing will make people wonder. You can’t really hang out (individually) with other people’s husbands and then feign shock at how other people are likely to perceive this OP isn't "feigning shock" (weird of you to say that). And she isn't hanging out with "other people's husband's", she's spending time with her friend. His identity isn't just someone's husband, he's a person in his own right.

It’s nothing personal to the OP. It’s simply because the vast majority of women and men wouldn’t put themselves in that position in the first place. What position? Having friends? I'd hate to be with someone so insecure, and likely controlling, that I couldn't continue my friendships with either sex. Out of interest @fiveinfulham, I'm bisexual so should I have no friends at all? Only non-binary friends maybe?

fiveinfulham · 21/09/2021 21:42

I would not say I’m insecure in my marriage at all, to be fair. We’ve been together 20 years. We have loads of friends. Never have an issue with him doing anything and never have. He’s going cycling tomorrow for 5 days. There may be women on the ride, there may not. I don’t care and I don’t ask. Total non-issue. But I do know he would not just go on 5 day ride with one woman. That’s the difference. He would see that as inappropriate and disrespectful - to me; to the woman and to her husband / partner (if she had one). It’s very easy to avoid potentially compromising situations.

I can’t comment on your friends and relationships Avery. I guess what I’m saying is, most women are much more guarded or careful in relationships with men than they are with women. ‘Friendships’ with men are more fraught - the very fact the OP, after 20 years, felt she had to post the question she did, says it all.

Milkshake54 · 21/09/2021 21:53

I think for me, if this was the usual type of day you would have planned when your husband was still alive - then it is not odd at all.

The offers from your friends husbands… is this something they would have offered before?
Also are the males your friends or the female? And you therefore know the males by proxy?

Sounds like this gentlemen is your friend, sounds like you’ve done things like this before? I think it would be even more weird to stop doing this just because of your husbands passing.

Hope you are ok

MasterBeth · 21/09/2021 22:02

I don’t think it’s a date.

It wasn’t a date when you met when your husband was alive because you were just friends.

It’s not a date now because you’re just friends.

Miseryl · 21/09/2021 22:03

I'm not a cool girlfriend, I would not like OH doing this with any other woman and if I was either woman I would think it's very date like. A lot here will disagree, all the cool wives.

SarahDippity · 21/09/2021 22:14

I’m sorry for your bereavement @RunningStrong

I’m not widowed but separated, and I can relate to the worry you have about other people’s perceptions. Firstly, ‘couples’ friends quickly became only-female friends and I stopped being included in couple invitations. Secondly, because my ex had an affair, I’m acutely aware of boundaries, and overthink situations where I worry I might be seen as some sort of danger (which makes me so uptight and formal that on occasion I find I’ve forgotten how to interact normally with men.)

I’m curious too as to who invited whom; you describe it as a day out you might each have chosen to do independently but somewhere along the way you paired up, and you feel conscious of potential misunderstandings. You sound very considerate and thoughtful. Are there particular aspects of the day that make you feel uncomfortable? Can you narrow down your feelings, and work out where the discomfort lies?

AnotherFruitcake · 21/09/2021 22:30

@fiveinfulham

“it’s perfectly possible for sex not to feature at all in a male-female friendship, regardless of the marital status of either party. “

Well I’ll take your word for it that it’s possible. But I think it’s very rare indeed for that to be the case. By that, I don’t mean all male-female ‘friendships’ will lead to sex. Not at all. But there’s invariably some level of flirtation, mutual gratification, or ‘frisson’ as someone else referred to it. Or you might end up confiding in them about your relationship which is a whole can of worms. I don’t think it’s possible to be as unguarded with a man as you would with a female friend. It’s always going to be a different dynamic. You can never be sure what they’re thinking.

That is untrue in my experience of longterm friendships with men that have been entirely uncomplicated by flirtation or ‘frisson’ — I’m happily married and don’t feel the need to confide in men or women friends about my marriage. I don’t think you can ever be entirely sure what another human being is thinking, but I don’t find my men friends any more mysterious than my women friends.

That they aren’t thinking about me sexually — which I assume is what you mean — has been proven over and over again over the decades by it simply never raising its head. We’ve had ample opportunities to sleep together — one friend, like me, lived away from his spouse Monday to Friday, I’ve gone on weekends away numerous times with another — so I conclude they are as uninterested in me sexually as I am in them.

And I’m not remotely a ‘cool wife’ (irritating expression), @Miseryl. I would not stay a day with a husband who used porn, took clients to lap dancing clubs and things many posters on Mn regard as inevitable.

AveryGoodlay · 22/09/2021 04:47

I'm not a cool girlfriend, I would not like OH doing this with any other woman and if I was either woman I would think it's very date like. A lot here will disagree, all the cool wives No one's claimed to be a "cool wife", different relationships have different levels of trust and boundaries.
Using a term like that makes you sound like you're in primary school, I'm always embarrassed for people who use it! Incidentally I've only ever heard it used is on Mumsnet.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 22/09/2021 05:13

I think you're over thinking this OP, understandably if some of your friends are a bit funny about you around their husbands.

You've been friends for 20 years
You have had days out like this before
You've met his sons
You have a genuine shared hobby
He has never made a pass at you or shown any signs of wanting more than friends
You wouldn't want to take it any further
You don't know his wife and have no indication that she isnt happy with your day out, you're just guessing.

You're doing nothing wrong, you have no proof that he is or might do something wrong, you're just taking what you think your friends think about you and applying it to this situation. It's nothing to do with you what he has told his wife (unless he starts talking to you about misleading her and then that kind of makes you a conspirator) and you're not making trouble having a day out with a friend. Its not going to be awkward since you don't know her or live near her.

I'd go, have a nice day, assume nothing has changed for him the same way nothing changed for you. And then if he does try anything on or tell you his wife is mad then you can re evaluate.

LadyOfLittleLeisure · 22/09/2021 06:53

Not really sure why everyone's being so harsh, but then I haven't read through the full thing.

Why not invite the wife to stay for parts of it and if it's a nice city she can go off and do something more fun (for her) during the sport bits?

sammylady37 · 22/09/2021 07:17

@Miseryl

I'm not a cool girlfriend, I would not like OH doing this with any other woman and if I was either woman I would think it's very date like. A lot here will disagree, all the cool wives.

Ah, the MN ‘cool girls’ insult. Do you realise throwing that jibe makes you seem like a teenager? And not somebody mature and secure enough to be in a healthy relationship?

sammylady37 · 22/09/2021 07:22

@fiveinfulham

“it’s perfectly possible for sex not to feature at all in a male-female friendship, regardless of the marital status of either party. “

Well I’ll take your word for it that it’s possible. But I think it’s very rare indeed for that to be the case. By that, I don’t mean all male-female ‘friendships’ will lead to sex. Not at all. But there’s invariably some level of flirtation, mutual gratification, or ‘frisson’ as someone else referred to it. Or you might end up confiding in them about your relationship which is a whole can of worms. I don’t think it’s possible to be as unguarded with a man as you would with a female friend. It’s always going to be a different dynamic. You can never be sure what they’re thinking.

Gosh, there’s so much wrong with this post, where to start?!

I hardly think it’s ‘very rare indeed’ for sex not to feature in male/female friendships. And there just isn’t invariably some level of flirtation etc.

As to ‘you can never be sure what they’re thinking’, well, can you ever be sure what anyone is thinking? You can surmise but never be sure. But presumably you’re getting at that you can never know whether the man is interested in sex with you and always feel he might be. If that’s the case, you need better male friends, not solely female ones.

sammylady37 · 22/09/2021 07:27

@fiveinfulham

To be fair though in all honesty, anyone who is ‘quite self-conscious about being around men and people making assumptions,’ wouldn’t go off for breakfast, lunch and dinner drinks with a married man!

. When all is said and fine, there is simply no need to do this. It’s totally irrelevant whether OP is single or not. Of course this type of thing will make people wonder. You can’t really hang out (individually) with other people’s husbands and then feign shock at how other people are likely to perceive this

. It’s nothing personal to the OP. It’s simply because the vast majority of women and men wouldn’t put themselves in that position in the first place.

There’s no need to do most of the things we do, is there, but people still do them because they want to.

There’s a particular singer who I like and who my friend’s husband likes. My friend doesn’t like this singer. So, in the good old pre-covid days, my friend’s husband and I went to the concerts together. Some of those were in his home city, some in another city altogether, so we would end up spending anything from 6 to 12 hours in each other’s company. No flirtation, no frisson, no hidden agendas. Just a mutual interest. I feel sorry for people who can’t understand that, much less experience it.

TheUnbearable · 22/09/2021 08:57

I was really good friends with a male colleague. We used to got for walks in our lunch hour and out to dinner after work on occasion. We introduced our spouses and even went on a weekend all away together once.

A few years down the line and DH and I broke up. My friend and I didn’t work together by then but were in touch. We arranged to go to a new bar for dinner and drinks. We were not drunk, we just had one alcoholic drink and a nice dinner. He updated me on all my old colleagues, talked about our kids, the state of the economy, photography and other stuff. Had a really good night, when he was dropping me off he made a pass at me. A decade long friendship ruined by him.

I think quite a few men are opportunistic chancers and I think women who get funny about single women know this. Obviously those men should be binned off and their behaviour is theirs alone and not any woman’s responsibility.

sammylady37 · 22/09/2021 09:15

I think quite a few men are opportunistic chancers and I think women who get funny about single women know this. Obviously those men should be binned off and their behaviour is theirs alone and not any woman’s responsibility

The ‘women who get funny about single women’ don’t seem to think so though- they put the responsibility and blame at the feet of the single woman who has tempted their ‘wonderful’ DH, blithely ignoring the fact that if he was that wonderful in the first place it wouldn’t matter what or how many single women made a pass at him. If he’s only faithful because you have eroded all opportunity for him to be unfaithful, then he’s no prize at all. But very many women don’t see this at all, and view the single women as the problem rather than the opportunistic man. And that’s why attitudes towards newly-single women change, unfortunately. There was a thread here recently in which a poster stated that ‘single women are dangerous’- that type of thinking is just misogynistic, simple-minded and actually quite controlling.

MilesOfSand · 22/09/2021 15:29

@sparklefarts

I don't know why you think he'd suddenly be tripping over himself to have an affair with you?

High opinion of yourself?

If he was the type to have an affair, he would have tried before you were widowed, if he had wanted to.

Honestly that’s just fucking horrible. She’s explained why.

FurzeMinister · 22/09/2021 15:39

Of course it's a date: you've made plans with one or more other people to meet up and do something at a specified future time. It seems you think the word "date" implies some romantic or sexual intention. It doesn't.

If you're asking if your friend's wife may assume that her husband has romantic or sexual intentions when getting together with a friend who happens to be female, then I don't think you'll get a reliable answer here. She may think something is off, and she may have reason to based on her experience with her husband, but that's her business and not yours.

TrainforSpeed · 10/10/2021 20:33

@RunningStrong

Married man in his mid 50s. Slightly younger widow. They've been friends for about 20 years through a shared sport interest neither spouse wanted to attend.

Planned trip to see an away fixture involves:

meet early for breakfast
get train to major city where event is
morning sightseeing
watch sport
play a (different) sport together
dinner and drinks
get training back at c. 11pm

It sounds like a great day out. Same sex friends all good, but....?

Oh. Yes. But another different man.

We did go on that trip and it was fine, but he's been a good friend for a long time and is still married. This man is more of an acquaintance and single.