To think the royal family are a bloody embarrassment THREAD 2

[MyOhMySimon]

Carrying on from Thread 1.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4347032-To-think-the-royal-family-are-a-bloody-embarrassment?msgid=110733144#110733144

Haven't seen the OP around, thread 1 is about to run out and someone asked for a new thread.

Why do people support the idea so much?

Public funds start being spent where they are needed, people start to feel as though they have a say in things, we draw lines and boundaries as to what we will and won't accept from our public figures, and we reappropriate land and resources for the benefit of 65 million, not 65.

Also the psychological implications of growing up in a country where the HoS is open to anyone, not just the person who fell out of the right vagina.

Where we look to people like Emma Radacanu as role models, not the (nice enough but perfectly average) York girls.

Monarchies tend to fair much better than republics

By what metric? I'd rather live in France than Saudi Arabia. Some monarchies are stable. Some republics are stable. Some monarchies and some republics are unpleasant dictatorships.

[quote ChurchofLatterDayPaints]@derxa Public funds start being spent where they are needed, people start to feel as though they have a say in things, we draw lines and boundaries as to what we will and won't accept from our public figures, and we reappropriate land and resources for the benefit of 65 million, not 65. [/quote]
Reappropriate land Are you a farmer? What will you do with your two acres? 🤣🤣

Where we look to people like Emma Radacanu as role models, not the (nice enough but perfectly average) York girls. We already do that. Poor Emma already the poster girl for lefty people like Gary Linekar when her family might just be raging Tories. Leave her alone FGS

@Blossomtoes

look at Germany, a country which for obvious reasons has already done the soul searching and massive structural work that the UK monarchists are terrified of.

Yes, look at Germany which did no soul searching whatsoever and got rid of its monarchy at the end of WW1 as a knee jerk. Look at who they elected only a few years later. That went really well.

Yes it’s only really the monarchy that keeps fascism away 🤡

@KeflavikAirport

Monarchies tend to fair much better than republics

By what metric? I'd rather live in France than Saudi Arabia. Some monarchies are stable. Some republics are stable. Some monarchies and some republics are unpleasant dictatorships.

And I would much prefer to live in England than in France. We dont all think the same.

Reappropriate land Are you a farmer? What will you do with your two acres?

Be careful! They might send us all down to labour in the countryside

I could maybe get behind them if they were all incredibly high achievers academically, spoke multiple languages, well studied in traditional British crafts, etc as that might actually be useful when meeting with other countries’ leaders. Yet despite access to all the money and resources in the world, most of them appear to have the abilities of a plastc bag, leaving them as nothing more than state sponsered celebrities.

@UsedUpUsername

Reappropriate land Are you a farmer? What will you do with your two acres?

Be careful! They might send us all down to labour in the countryside

Sounds suspiciously like Stalin's Collectivisation policy

For the country, patently obvious.

You wanted suggestions, you got them, you can't answer them, you mock.

So we keep the monarchs and their filthy corruption, what's your vision for 100 years from now? What level of govt-endorsed royal thieving and deception would be acceptable to you?

What happened to that old mumsnet refrain "the only acceptable level of abuse is none"? That's republican BS as well, is it?

That was to @derxa, sorry.

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

For the country, patently obvious.

You wanted suggestions, you got them, you can't answer them, you mock.

So we keep the monarchs and their filthy corruption, what's your vision for 100 years from now? What level of govt-endorsed royal thieving and deception would be acceptable to you?

What happened to that old mumsnet refrain "the only acceptable level of abuse is none"? That's republican BS as well, is it?

I'm serious about land appropriation. So the Duchy of Cornwall is turned directly to the Government. If you think that won't lead to corruption you're living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Unless Charles massively revamps the Royal family to be more in line with the European royals be will be our last monarch. I'm not sure he has the capacity to cope with the reduced status, he loves his pampered life

Charles has floated the idea of a reduced monarchy for years because it plays well with the plebs. One thing that's cast iron guaranteed is that his own bloated lifestyle won't be curtailed one iota.

CathyorClaire

Charles has floated the idea of a reduced monarchy for years because it plays well with the plebs. One thing that's cast iron guaranteed is that his own bloated lifestyle won't be curtailed one iota.

Absolutely. Of course, he and Camilla, and his own children and grandchildren won't be affected at all.

Of course there will always be corruption, but not in the hands of just one despotic family.

It keeps coming back to the same thing: their unjustified secrecy which means no transparency for us. No one person or family can be allowed to cling to power but we're letting them with this put up and shut up attitude and by not urgently investigating alternative forms of govt.

A massive scale back could save it (which would involve significant return of funds/estates to the state) and all but the immediate heirs cut loose.

Unfortunately Charles is much less smart/adept at reading the public mood than his mother. He’d never countenance it on the scale it needs to be done. Plus he feels he’s ‘owed it’ at this stage.

It’ll all fall apart very quickly once he takes charge. So many people conflate liking the Queen with supporting the monarchy. It’ll be a huge test.

I agree with a lot of this except I am not sure the Queen is that great at reading the public mood either tbh. Her strategy is often "do nothing and it will blow over". And of course "it" often does! It is often wise to pause, cogitate and take the long term view. However, to do nothing to substantially reform the RF over a reign of 69 years, to be dragged kicking and screaming in to tax reform, or opening up the castles for profit etc, seems to me to be lacking in foresight. From a perspective of when she was 30, in 1956, she may think she has made lots of reforms such as giving up the royal yacht, paying tax,having to raise money for renovations, slimming down the number of staff. But the problem is that that perspective still does not match up with a 2021 outlook.

And as pps have said, I think the pandemic has changed us and shown us what is important, and what is not. We found out that we could do without vacuous celebrities, designer clothes, royalty, and what we really value is health care workers, teachers, lorry drivers, courier drivers, infrastructure workers, and bin collectors.

Personally, and I don't mean this in a disrespectful manner as I have nothing against them personally, but I find the public celebration of the Royal Family's births and birthdays and jubilees to strike an "off" note nowadays and next year I would think it more appropriate to celebrate the end of the pandemic (if it is the end) rather than lots of money spent celebrating the Queen's 70 years on the throne. I am not saying she hasn't been dutiful, and I admire anyone who can still ride a horse in their 90s, but I think public & state celebrations should be more collective nowadays and not just focused around the monarch.

If you think that won't lead to corruption you're living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

If you think there's no corruption already, then I don't know what to tell you.

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints

No, I was referring to its post-WW2 analysis of the balance of power, and its model of presidency which is far more democratic and transparent than what we have.

You can’t cherry pick, I’m afraid. Germany had to have Hitler and occupation of its country to reach its current state. The German population voted for his regime and turned a blind eye to its atrocities. Yes some societies with an elected head of state are democratic successes but we can’t pretend they all are/were. Sweden is one of the most civilised and egalitarian societies in the world and it retains its monarchy.

@MyOhMySimon

If you think that won't lead to corruption you're living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

If you think there's no corruption already, then I don't know what to tell you.

So you exchange one set of corruption for another. What’s the point?

Despot
dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/despot
Yeah the Royal Family are just like the Taliban.
The Royal Family will change in the coming decades and I hope for the better. For them and us

And as pps have said, I think the pandemic has changed us and shown us what is important, and what is not. We found out that we could do without vacuous celebrities, designer clothes, royalty, and what we really value is health care workers, teachers, lorry drivers, courier drivers, infrastructure workers, and bin collectors.

A massive yup! (Yes!) That some people thought it would boost morale and make a difference to most people for Kate and William to wave and smile at the public on Zoom from their cushy home, or the Queen to read a note - with her expensive jewelry on show, while the country was on its knees was just...I'd say sad but revolting is the appropriate word.

but I think public & state celebrations should be more collective nowadays and not just focused around the monarch.

Another massive YUP! We're either in it together or we're subjects celebrating our masters.