To think the royal family are a bloody embarrassment THREAD 2

[MyOhMySimon]

Carrying on from Thread 1.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4347032-To-think-the-royal-family-are-a-bloody-embarrassment?msgid=110733144#110733144

Haven't seen the OP around, thread 1 is about to run out and someone asked for a new thread.

I think it will be worse when the Queen dies.

I do think we always have to weigh up longevity with a life tragically cut short. I remember so well where I was watching Diana's funeral, youngest was 6 or thereabouts and them saying 'mummy why are you crying' . I was home juggling DC's
and it was emotional to me because of similar personal circumstances, (but in a private way)

The outpouring of grief in such a public way was something I couldn't get my head round.

Totally agree derxa

I suspect I’m going to feel sort of adrift. She’s been a constant all my life, I was born in coronation year. It will be the end of an era for sure.

I don't think there will be the same sort of mourning for the Queen as there was for Diana. I'm a republican but I hope there will be a respectful celebration of her long life and the very solid continuity she provided throughout her long reign. I hope the press and TV channels and general public will behave with restraint and won't descend in to mawkishness. And then I hope there will be a respectful debate about the future.

The mourning we had for Diana was a mixture of factors all coming together that's very difficult to understand if you didn't live through it. The world was a very different place without the accessible social media there is today. She was one of the most famous women in the world, whom we were used to seeing in the papers every day, and I think there was very much an element of people not fully appreciating who she was and what she did, until she died.

Also it was shocking because she died at a time in her life when she had gone through a lot of difficulties and appeared to be emerging stronger. And of course there were the motherless boys and a sense of injustice about what had been done to her. (Remember none of us knew for sure that PC's affair with Camilla was true; we assumed it was tittle tattle, and we were shocked when it not only turned out to be true, but we didn't know the half of it.) And she was unique in the RF because she engaged with people naturally and she appealed to so many different branches of the public such as the gay community, many different ethnic minorities, divorced women, and so many people identified with her predicament. And we'd followed her story from when she was 19 years through to her late thirties which were the prime years of her life .

Although there are always people who get carried away, I don't think the mourning for her was embarrassing. I was in the capital shortly after her death and the feeling was very strange, you could almost cut the atmosphere with a knife; I had never experienced anything like it before even as a seasoned Londoner, and I thought it was very genuine.

Remember none of us knew for sure that PC's affair with Camilla was true; we assumed it was tittle tattle, and we were shocked when it not only turned out to be true, but we didn't know the half of it.

I think you’re misremembering. Tampongate was in the news in 1993 and Diana made that famous statement about three in the marriage in 1995. The entire country knew about it.

The sobbing and wailing was awful. That dreadful wall of rotting flowers. I reckon SM would have made it worse. Twitter would have melted down with mawkishness. Hopefully when the Queen dies it won’t. I’m not holding my breath though, I suspect we’ll have a pretty wearing week of it.

Didn't we first find out about Camilla with the publication of Andrew Morton's book? I think that predated tampongate.

Anyway, I can remember people claiming Morton had made it all up. I think it was only after Diana died that he revealed he'd spoken to her directly.

@Blossomtoes

Remember none of us knew for sure that PC's affair with Camilla was true; we assumed it was tittle tattle, and we were shocked when it not only turned out to be true, but we didn't know the half of it.

I think you’re misremembering. Tampongate was in the news in 1993 and Diana made that famous statement about three in the marriage in 1995. The entire country knew about it.

The sobbing and wailing was awful. That dreadful wall of rotting flowers. I reckon SM would have made it worse. Twitter would have melted down with mawkishness. Hopefully when the Queen dies it won’t. I’m not holding my breath though, I suspect we’ll have a pretty wearing week of it.

I think I will hibernate that week. Didn't have the TV or radio on when Pip passed. Can't bear the ridiculousness of idiots crying over people who wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

@Handsoffstrikesagain

Totally agree pony. I read a theory on this though when Diana died. That because we are all so conditioned to having a Queen (or King if you’re very old) we subconsciously look to them for guidance in times of trouble. I remember the analogy of ants serving the queen were used. The article basically said we are all going to have a breakdown when the Queen dies because she’s been there for the majority of all of our lives. I’ve very clumsily recited that article but I hope you get my drift!

Yes I can understand that completely. Rather like outpourings of grief when a dictator in somewhere like North Korea dies. People go hysterical with grief, even though those people had been kept down all their lives and their leader lived in splendor. But it's all the people had ever known. It's a strange concept.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

It’s very likely that there will be some kind of national trauma when she goes. Like 1997 on steroids

I agree many will be upset, but let's hope it doesn't turn into the emotional incontinence we saw when Diana went

I got flamed for saying it at the time - though many have come to a similar view since - but parts of that were downright embarrassing

I remember feeling for the first time that I was out of step with many people...that they had emotions I simply couldn't have and thank God for it! It was ludicrous. People crying more for a woman they never knew than they would for their own mother.

It was easier to keep things more private in the days when everyone wasn't carrying a mobile phone. And people were more deferential. So it was easier to keep things hidden. And let's just say that the public's knowledge about what happened with Charles, Diana and Camilla evolved over time. But I definitely remember the official statements from the palace denying it was true. And many people took that at face value until the press stories became too numerous to ignore.

Looking back what was done to her was awful really. She was expected to "go quietly". Prince Charles's office briefed against her making her out to be a mentally unstable air head when they both had dysfunctional childhoods and she had grown to be actually quite savvy. All the stuff about her enjoying pop music when she liked classical music. His powerful friends in government telling the press she was a loose cannon. There were faults on both sides of course and Martin Bashir didn't help but Prince Charles definitely had power and the establishment behind him and I think he used her very badly.

I also think people have long memories ... .

We respect the Queen.

But let's face it we don't (I don't and many I know have a moment where she stands out?)
Feel close to her or especially knowing of her. She's managed to keep herself very removed.

I admire her and respect her, she was cut from a different cloth to those today and around her.

But.. I don't feel warm towards her like I did as a young 20 something for Diana, I can't remember any moment where she has warmed my heart like Diana did.

William and Kate are also removed and cold, funnily enough, inspite of hating being preached too by Harry and Megan, I think they are far more relatable than the other royals!!
I think they would make a smashing king and queen.

Btw I thought the Morton book was published in 92 and tampongate was Jan 93?

Hodtibunda

Infact it's so hard recent but so deeply sexist it's astonishing what they got away with!
I had a bf who it turned out was still in thrall.. If not in love to an ex and it was heart breaking!

Autumn I am determined NOT to dislike Meghan and Harry as I feel the media and the Palace are trying to push us in that direction. And I don't take kindly to being manipulated.

Or at least if I do, I will decide.

Yes Autumngoldleaf not so much latterly but I think what she had to go through as a 20 year old bride - when he was 32 - was hideous. How she was manipulated by everyone to provide an heir and a spare. And how she was pilloried and it was seen as "not quit cricket" that she had the audacity to protest about it! People forget how sexist life was in the 90s.

People forget Diana wasn't particularly popular at the time of her death. Cavorting round Europe on a playboy's yacht wasn't doing her any favours. Her sudden death did however kick-start the re-writing and romanticising of her narrative that continues to this day.

I too visited London the day after the funeral mainly so the kids could later claim to have been there although at five and under I didn't expect any of them to remember and they don't. Totally agree it was a weird, weird atmosphere. I expected the streets to be deserted but there were still stands for reporters from all over the globe broadcasting live.

Cavorting is an interesting word to use! .

I don't think anyone is romanticising the narrative. She was a deeply flawed individual. She admitted she struggled. That's why people were drawn to her.

Some people have long memories, most don’t. It’s 24 years since Diana died, she means nothing to anyone under about 40.

Cavorting is an interesting word to use!

What's your interpretation of the shots taken over the final few days of her life?

I don't think anyone is romanticising the narrative. She was a deeply flawed individual. She admitted she struggled. That's why people were drawn to her

Deeply flawed, yes. And a contemporary view aided and abetted by Charles' mates (Yes, Bunter Soames. Looking at you) but the Saint Diana myth has been inflated beyond reason aided by potentiallly inconvenient contradiction in the years since her death starting with the trite 'People's Princess' soundbite trotted out by Tony Bliar on the orders of Alistair Campbell and since continued by her sons.

People forget Diana wasn't particularly popular at the time of her death. Cavorting round Europe on a playboy's yacht wasn't doing her any favours. Her sudden death did however kick-start the re-writing and romanticising of her narrative that continues to this day. That was the press who were trashing her. A lot of us at that time saw her as a flawed but charismatic individual.
RIP Diana

lack of potentially inconvenient contradiction

@CathyorClaire

Cavorting is an interesting word to use!

What's your interpretation of the shots taken over the final few days of her life?

I don't think anyone is romanticising the narrative. She was a deeply flawed individual. She admitted she struggled. That's why people were drawn to her

Deeply flawed, yes. And a contemporary view aided and abetted by Charles' mates (Yes, Bunter Soames. Looking at you) but the Saint Diana myth has been inflated beyond reason aided by potentiallly inconvenient contradiction in the years since her death starting with the trite 'People's Princess' soundbite trotted out by Tony Bliar on the orders of Alistair Campbell and since continued by her sons.

Her sons are allowed to venerate her. She was their bloody mother FGS.

That was the press who were trashing her

Not like they had to look far TBF but anyway. Public opinion was decidedly frosty. Lukewarm if one was being generous.

I think the weird wailing and gnashing of teeth was at least as much inspired by guilt at the lapping up of the trashing she was getting as the utter shock.