to think there must be something wrong with me that I can't seem to meet somebody?

[Ratatwat]

I'm a young (late 20s) healthy and fit woman. I have many hobbies, don't want to say too much as could be outing I suppose (long time reader first time poster) but they are very active. I guess I can say I'm running a marathon in a couple of weeks and it's not my first, I have a high powered job making more than twice the UK median salary and I own a flat in Zone 2 London (mortgaged) and a car. I actively volunteer and am part of several other organisation/group type things.

All my family is overseas so I am very independent, but I have a fabulous group of friends. If they are busy, I travel alone with my pet or go somewhere abroad to run a race myself but travel in groups with them (prepandemic) so am hardly sitting around waiting for a man.

But I've also put a lot of effort into trying to meet someone. I've asked to be set up, and gone the few times friends have set me up on dates. I've been on the apps for years with horrible, awful results. I even tried speed dating recently (also bloody awful). I don't just mean that I felt the men weren't good-looking enough for me or something shallow like under 6ft tall, I mean they were unable to make a conversation for even 4 minutes, barely spoke English so we just couldn't communicate, vastly age inappropriate despite the event parameters, extraordinarily unfit (so incompatible lifestyles), etc. I even asked out a colleague (would be inappropriate except he said he's leaving the job now) who is the only person who I've met in person and found attractive and know to be employed etc but although he said an enthusiastic yes at first when I tried to get a specific time/day out of him he's backed off. I don't get it.

Obviously, many people have had bad experiences online, but most of mine have been exceptionally bad. I mean, racial abuse and an actual sexual assault. So I have given up that. My last ex of about a year was a setup from a friend and what you'd all call a cocklodger, and an emotionally abusive one at that. He abruptly dumped me in a very abusive way on the day the rumours of the lockdown started (he called his mum to get him while I was out of the flat!).

I don't think I deserved any of that! I'm a very caring person in addition to being very 'together'. My only 'drawback' is that I have depression, but it is well managed. I see a private consultant (at high cost) and take my medication and do exercise, eat well, sleep regularly, etc and it doesn't really inhibit anything. Obviously, I sound negative right now, but I'm not a particularly negative person. I'm considered a pretty funny (somewhat dry) person.

I really don't know what else I'm meant to do at this point. I am happy to spend time by myself, but I am getting lonely now. I do a lot of things, as I said, work and volunteering and hobbies, but since the pandemic my social life hasn't returned to normal. I am reaching out to friends but the coupled up ones have retreated into their couples and are only spending time with each other or travelling together, and I'm excluded. We don't go to the theatre anymore. Even my running club doesn't meet regularly anymore. I used to be out almost 5 nights a week, out more often than not, now I'm often home alone on a given night and I recently did a domestic weeklong holiday (I know, this isn't a 'staycation') and I ended up going myself because I couldn't get a friend to come. Later I found out online that the very day I left this UK beauty spot, a group of my slightly older and coupled up friends went to the exact same place. They knew I was going there alone and not by choice and didn't even tell me. I would have loved to go with them, or even just meet that day as I left and they came for dinner or something, but no. I was so hurt.

Sorry this is so long. I just feel like honestly, when I open up to people about this in real life they tell me I have so much going for me. I objectively have a great job and am a high achiever, I am fairly attractive and fit, I am 'successful' and interesting, I'm independent and not looking for someone to take care of me and have no kids and don't need anyone's money or anything. I just want someone to go away with me for the weekend, go out for dinner after work, maybe even cheer me on at the finish line and hold my jacket. Is that really unattainable?

Is there something I'm not trying that I should be?

I know it's long, I don't want to drip feed.

OP you sound fab and I kind of want to be friends with you! I think we’d get in great.

No magical advice from me I’m afraid, other than to say you are still very young and I suspect dating might start to get easier for you in your 30s as the ‘pool’ of men starts to change a bit. In your 20s a lot of people are either playing the field, or in their first serious long-term relationships with people they met at uni or soon after. It sounds weird but when you hit your 30s there seem to be a lot more men around who are looking for something a bit more serious, either because they’ve had their fun or because they’ve come out of those early serious relationships and are now looking for someone new.

It makes me sad to see you thinking there must be something wrong with you, or other posters saying you’re too intense etc. You are who you are, and you’ll only be happy in a relationship if it’s with someone who appreciates you exactly how you are. Not someone who likes a modified version of you that you construct to seem more appealing to potential suitors.

I know at 28 you probably feel ancient, I did too, but now I’m 10 years older than you and I feel younger than I did back then. Don’t get sucked in by the bullshit idea that women have an expiry date in their 30s and that you have to find a perfect mate by then. That’s just a recipe for settling with someone that makes you miserable.

Basically just keep living your life and putting yourself out there and I suspect you’ll eventually meet someone great but until then, please know you are fab and don’t need to change arbitrary things to make yourself more appealing (although I did have a good laugh at the idea that you maybe can’t find a man because of your fingernails).

@SoundBar

OP, in your OP you write that you "have depression" in the same way you write about having curly hair. In later posts you then say you have anxiety. And in the most recent update you say you can't stand to be alone with your thoughts.

In the nicest possible way, it sounds like there are some big things going on in your psyche that you're trying to escape from.

If you can learn to love yourself and feel compassion for yourself that will translate outwards. It all sounds very transactional and surface level, that isn't what a LTR or marriage can or should be.

For example you haven't given a sense of why you run, do you love it? Then in an update you said you would be happy to reduce it to fit a potential partner.

What do you actually enjoy? Who are you OP? As a person, flawed and quirky? That's who you need to know and love.

This is a great insight. OP, it almost seems like marriage is just the next thing for you on the list of achievements, another box to be ticked. And you’re approaching it will all the planning and effort and intention you would apply to training for a marathon. But sharing your life with someone requires opening up, being vulnerable, compromising. If you’re unable to sit with your innermost thoughts, how can you hope to share them with someone else.

Without sounding patronising, it seems like you have crafted this tough shiny exterior (organised, accomplished, successful) but neglected what’s underneath.

There is nothing I loathe or fear more than meditation and I always have some sort of informational podcast or audiobook playing to quiet the anxious thoughts. I listen to books or podcasts while I run, fold laundry, cook, commute, fall asleep, and even shower. Anything to avoid being alone in the quiet with my own thoughts. I cannot imagine anything worse.

This is quite concerning, you need to be ok with yourself before you try and find a life partner.
Have you ever had any sort of therapy to uncover why you are so uncomfortable with your own thoughts?

@Underamour

Just to add wrt to racism, I am mixed but fair skinned with straight hair. I am proud of my background and don’t hide my heritage. The reactions I’ve had when I mention this vary from three fulsome messages explaining that their best friend’s cousin is this race followed by silence to a picture of a fucking watermelon and when challenged, apologies that they had no idea of the well known meaning of this. So, in short, racism is alive and well on dating sites.

Bit of an odd post?

Because you sound like you genuinely want to meet someone, I am going to say something that you and I am sure some other MNs might not like. At all!

You sound to be a bit intense and "strong".
In my very limited opinion on this subject, the quieter[but not too quiet], meeker women have an easier time of a man being interested than "someone who does not need a man" and are financially independent.
Yes I know, vast generalisation, and there will be MNs who will come and say "but I know so and so who..." etc etc, but thought I would still say almost an elephant in the room thing.

But sharing your life with someone requires opening up, being vulnerable, compromising. If you’re unable to sit with your innermost thoughts, how can you hope to share them with someone else.

And this.

@FurtherUpAndFartherIn Thanks, I've been meaning to try yoga again as I've never enjoyed or stuck with it but the amount of running and weight training I do means I really need to do some sort of stretching anyway, and my gym has classes, I'll give it a go. It is not going to cure my lifelong and incurable mental health conditions however.

@Solasum Yes I'm upfront/it's usually on my profile that I don't want kids. I'm not going to change my mind so there's no point in hiding this. No, I do not constantly talk about being single/lonely with my friends, however most of my very good friends are happy to listen and support and understand that lockdown living alone rarely seeing another person face to face was extremely hard on me and don't actually mind me reaching out to them and asking for a chat. I don't mind those who are single talking about the same or those who are in relationships talking about their problems with those, or job problems or house problems or whatever else it is because we are friends.

@SoundBar I have been in therapy for 15 years and I'm well aware of any and all issues I have, and they aren't big. I have an official depression diagnosis, it comes with increased anxiety, I have medication for both. This is treatable, it's manageable and I'm managing it very well, but it is incurable. What is "going on in my psyche" is that. Some very outdated ideas about mental health on here. If I don't deserve to date someone until I'm never depressed or anxious again, I guess I'll be single forever. It'll be a surprise to my very depressed, ADHD/autistic couple friends.

@Freeloadingtosser that's an interesting way to interpret what I've said about my faults. For instance, in asking strangers about what's stopping you from dating, you felt it necessary to slot in how many marathons you've run and allude to how many miles you run otherwise, unasked. No idea to what you are referring. No matter what I say to try to give a full picture though you seem to dislike it.

lightand I don’t understand your post. Are you saying that if she genuinely wants to meet someone OP needs to make herself quieter and poorer?

OP, fuck that.

@Underamour Yeah, racism on the dating apps is indeed a problem, I hope nobody is arguing that. I am mixed ethnically, the most common question I used to get is "What are you?"; at least now it's usually "Where are you from? No...where are you really from?" because they didn't really mean what city in America I was born in.

@FirewomanSam Thank you, I do indeed feel ancient right now.

@CreepingDeath I am okay with myself (mostly, and some days are better than others) and I feel plenty of compassion for myself, it is why I take such good care of myself. As I have mentioned many times, although many posters have skipper over this, I have been in 15 years of therapy, I take good care of my mental health and manage what I have to deal with the best I can. I am able to share and talk to and be open with friends and they are able to do the same with me. I have had friendships that have lasted nearly 20 years on this basis, it is not uncommon for me to text them as they are overseas and just say 'need to talk' and get a phone or video call back straightaway and vice versa. My friendships are deep, we are open and vulnerable with each other, they are also not perfect always-happy people and we are willing to support and uphold each other anyway.

I've described a previous relationship where I believe I was extremely open, vulnerable, over-compromised if anything, and the problem was just that he was not the right person, unkind and not willing to reciprocate.

@SoundBar I also can answer 'why do you run?' with because it is part of taking care of myself, I dislike it but doing a lot of regular exercise has known benefits for managing depression and anxiety, and helping with sleep, as well as simply being good for your cardiovascular health. I didn't say I would do less of it to suit a partner, I said I might back off the intense life-ruining marathon training level of running after the actual marathon so I can do more, different things - I will continue to run, half marathons are a perfect distance for me, and I have wanted to use my very expensive gym membership more. I won't specify the number of miles or hours I've been running per week lest I be criticised for saying so for no reason but it is not normally considered sustainable indefinitely and leaves little free time or energy for anything else. I do actually already go to Parkrun now and then, when it fits my training schedule, I might be able to go more if it didn't clash with a specific plan I had.

I enjoy loads of things, I've already been told I write too much, I don't know what I'm meant to say succinctly to answer this. Horses are my greatest passion, I have had my horse for over a decade. Everyone at the yard is amused by my consistent levels of matchy-matchy horse outfits. I love my dog, he wears a bow tie. I've mentioned I wrote a book, I love to write fiction and to have achieved this truly fulfils me. I care a lot about many social causes which is why I devote so much volunteering time to them. I'm an amazing hostess and I always over-feed people and I love doing that. Don't really know what else you want from me here.

@lightand If all of this makes me 'intense' and 'strong' then okay, so be it. I don't see that I can change that.

I actually don't know whether it makes a difference but I haven't said I am looking for marriage, I don't know whether I will want to get married, I am looking for a relationship as opposed to 'something casual' or a hookup though.

Hi OP, you sound great but perhaps a bit 'niche'; ie as you say yourself, you are unusual in intelligence/financial situation etc (in a good way!) My daughter was also a bit 'niche' and a similar age to you when she turned to the apps having met no suitable men IRL (her main interest/hobby is also horse-riding, which as you know seems unpopular in the main with men.)

You say you don't really want to go back to OLD but unfortunately it seems to be the best way nowadays, so few people seeming to meet suitable partners in day-to-day life - I wonder if this is because we have all become pickier - after all in previous generations you would pretty much settle for someone of the right sort of age who lived in your village or attended your church, even if they weren't quite what you had hoped for. So in that sense, OLD has opened up a whole world of 'better' matches for people.

My DD found the whole OLD thing excruciating but was lucky enough to meet a lovely man quite early on (they got married this year). The site she used was match.com, which she paid for, and as it happened there seemed to be some decent, genuine types on there (I have heard some on MN say they had NO luck with Match, however.. obviously it depends.)

Before she met The One on Match, I was wondering if she shouldn't try this site Elite Singles - I don't know anything about it but it sounded like the sort of OLD site where suitable matches for someone like you might come up.

The Telegraph did a list this year of the best dating sites for women - worth a look? There's even one called Inner Circle where you have to pass a sort of entrance test to get in - ! which would seem to weed out really unsuitable time-waster types.

As others have said, it's widely held to be a 'numbers game' - how much appetite could you muster up to go back to OLD - it can be a wearisome and depressing business - so it would be much better to put yourself in real-life places where single, suitable males might be - but that doesn't seem to work for everyone.

Anyway I really wish you good luck and hope you meet someone who enriches your life, quite soon

I was very driven at your age, I do think it scares some men. The other thing I have in common with you though you mentioned it only briefly is that you have experienced racism. I’m not white and someone I dated way back who I really liked let it slip one time, he said I have only ever taken white girls home. That still hurts almost 30 years hence.

I’m not talking just about overt racism here I’m talking about cultural expectations and differences. I married a white guy, when his Mum visits it’s English food all week. I love my MIL but my God I have had enough of potatoes when she leaves.

The one negative thing coming from your posts isn’t your hobbies or career it’s the incredibly long explanations and intensity of your posts. Sometimes people do just want to sit and not do very much.

@ApplesinmyPocket Thank you, and congrats for your daughter. It's odd that men don't ride isn't it? Unless my still-unanswered question about how it doesn't hurt their bits is the reason? Always thought when I was a teenager that if boys were smart they'd all be in ballet and riding classes where all the pretty girls were, and boys would be a hot commodity. But, no. My early 40s good friend recently said she might try match, so I will look into it.

@Auntienumber8 Sorry you had that experience. I've had some quite unpleasant things said, it does stick with you.

Again I apologise for apparently offending many posters with detailed answers, not explaining myself fully only leads to more questions and some very off assumptions, but I'll endeavour to keep it short.

I've gone off you a bit OP in the course of your responses on this thread. From being driven and interesting you have moved to arrogant and high handed. 15% less intelligent. Ha!!!

@CrumbsThatsQuick Ok, not all of my jokes will land.

As I have mentioned many times, although many posters have skipper over this, I have been in 15 years of therapy.

My apologies, but you do write long walls of text that can be hard to get through, along with a lot of unnecessary detail.

I think you are trying to figure this out too much; your intelligence and your resourcefulness are working against you here. I'm sorry that dating hasn't resulted in a relationship you want, but often it's just dumb luck rather than anything else.

The fact that it's something we can't really control is part of the charm, sometimes it just happens and that's wonderful. But for those of us who haven't found long lasting love, it can be hard to come to terms with (I am long term single but fine with it), especially for people who are very accomplished in other areas of life. They perceive it as a failure, when in fact it's just bad timing, or whatever.

"I often wish I were 15% less intelligent because of all the constant over analysing of possible worst case scenarios."

OP, you are right, I did not read this as a joke.

I think people talking about charm, timing, chemistry, going with the flow, lightening up etc. are giving the most helpful advice. Drop the project. Enjoy your life. If it is meant to be, it will be.

A PP mentioned being "steamrollered" and that's honestly how I'm feeling too.

You've asked a question that seems to invite constructive criticism but every time you get it, there's a wall of text about why that's not it. You complained about people accusing you of "writing too much", which is a bit of an oversimplification, and told us that you're clearly "not repulsive", which not a single poster has suggested you are. Quite the opposite. Then the complaints that we haven't acknowledged all your time in therapy. Were we supposed to? Is it working, if you still need it?

Should you "change"? Well, depends on what you mean by that. Stop doing the things you love or never talk about them? Of course not. Consider whether perhaps your social interaction skills might benefit from some honing? Maybe. You have a roomful of women here telling you you're awesome and it's terrible that a handful of us are answering the question about what might perhaps be off-putting, but you don't date women.

I do agree with a PP that you might be using your achievements, as admirable as they are, as a bit of a mask and I wonder if your therapy is addressing this.

Your interactions with men, and others, shouldn't be geared around how you can, say, use your salary to help them while scribbling out the prices or whatever. There needs to be a personal connection, how you make each other feel. What do you think, what do you feel...who are you?

@DrSbaitso Honestly, it seems like you're looking for the most uncharitable possible reading of anything I say now.

I am attempting to fully consider the questions raised as potential criticisms, as none of you know me, you need context, this can take up some words, and you may indeed be off base. Some of you are, some of you aren't, I've acknowledged things that felt right and given my full consideration of everything. I've mentioned I've had a lot of therapy several times as several of you keep suggesting I try it.

told us that you're clearly "not repulsive", which not a single poster has suggested you are
yes, I know, it was a lighthearted and self-deprecating joke about how melodramatic I know I must sound and acknowledging how low my self-esteem has been.

As for whether my therapy is 'working', ha! Ha! What a question.

I do hate for you to feel steamrollered and I really don't even know where to begin with questions like those so I think maybe I'll disengage from them.

I think it's a breakthrough.

Op it’s hard to see what you’re really like because you’re answering our questions but the detail does make you seem intense.

I wonder if I’m the early stages of chat you give too much detail or if you are able to be light and flirty. FWIW I tried online dating after being married for 20 years and realised I had terrible written / text skills and what I thought was a great self deprecating sense of humour didn’t come across well to men.

Also I think you said you filter on qualifications, I initially did this because I have a masters, but the guy I ended up with is a fairly successful guy who didn’t go to university and worked his way up from several manual jobs to a career in finance who reads and his background gives him many interesting stories far more so than my Cambridge MA educated ex husband. Lookswise my partners photos didn’t do him justice either, I think a lot of people don’t photograph well so it’s good to give a man who looks average in a photo a chance.

I would agree though that generally men who do online dating are probably not great and it really is a numbers game. I know from the dating threads here (which you should join for support from other brilliant women in a similar position) that men often swipe on every woman and then filter on the ones they like so will be having monosyllabic conversations if you’re not their preferred one. I was looking at men in their 40s / 50s and unfortunately by that age many have let themselves go and have no interests other than pub / Netflix. My partner is bright but not as into art galleries or literature as I would like but I have female friends for that.

I also wonder if racism plays a part, I have heard that certain ethnic groups find it harder to meet people which is disgusting but unavoidable. Also with religion I think many people would avoid someone who puts it in their profile as they would assume it’s a big part of their life. Having said that I completely understand why you would want to filter out bigots if you have had bad experiences where you haven’t mentioned your religion.

I am attempting to fully consider the questions raised as potential criticisms, as none of you know me, you need context, this can take up some words, and you may indeed be off base.

C'mon OP, we are a bunch of strangers of course we don't know you, will never know you - we can only go on what you are writing here. Even if you wrote 10 pages of in-depth detail, we still wouldn't know you. It's not in our interest to read into everything perfectly and understand you completely, why would we?

You are expecting too much from a thread on a public message board. People are trying to come up with helpful reasons, ideas etc. but of course they're imperfect, they are just suggestions.

You are very invested in us all getting the 'right' understanding of you, it's kind of exhausting to read. This constant over analysis is not doing you any good.

I think you sound great. The only problem is that there are not enough great, or even just normalish men out there. So many men are just blantently horrible, plus more of them than women don't want to be in relationships. So that doesn't leave many. If you had half the attributes you have and were a man, you would have been snapped up years ago.

Forget most of the replies here. No matter what you say people are going to find fault. Your posts are reasonably upbeat - you aren't expressing yourself, aren't showing emotion. If you'd come on here with a sad post - why would a man want to date a sad sack like you, you should be upbeat. Have hobbies - you have too many hobbies! Don't have hobbies - that's boring, get some hobbies, plus you'll meet a man there. Have a good career - you're up yourself! Don't - why would anyone want a lazy person with no career. Etc etc etc until the end of time.

Honestly, it seems like you're looking for the most uncharitable possible reading of anything I say now.

I'm sure it does seem that way to you.

You asked us a question. I've given you an honest answer.

TreeSmuggler Amen!

OP you have nerves of steel posting a thread like this here and you’ve handled all the comments remarkably well. I’ve been reduced to tears here by far less!

There’s nothing wrong with you and you don’t need to change anything about yourself or your personality to find a man. You’re just a young woman navigating the realities of dating and it’s rough out there. Yes it’s a numbers game but remember you only need to find one, in the end. Quality not quantity! If and when you eventually meet someone who is the right fit for you and accepts you as you are, you’ll look back and laugh at all these suggestions that you need more/less hobbies, less money, less confidence and nicer fingernails in order to find a man.

Any man who only wants you if you make yourself quieter, shyer, more boring and less financially independent is not a man you want to be with anyway.

I speak as someone who spent my entire 20s with a man who constantly told me I was too this, too that, that I was lucky he wanted to be with me because I was so annoying/boring/stuck up that no one else would. And now I’m married to a wonderful man I met in my 30s who loves me exactly as I am and who has never wanted me to change a single thing about me. You deserve that too, and nothing less.

Look @CreepingDeath, it was a forum post question, not a court summons. If you don't want to read it, or try to understand, and find it exhausting, then feel free to click the 'x' on the top right of your browser tab. Usually I read these because I am interested, and do want to understand, and if I get bored or annoyed I just close the window. I am doing okay, I intentionally set out to do some self-analysis and seek some input from strangers but from some who would give thoughtful, interested input based on actually reading the information supplied. I'm able to take on board what I know applies, comfortable telling you what I know doesn't, and I know that I know myself and you don't know me.

@stealthninjamum I am good at light, flirty chat. If I'm really keen on someone, I run my messages past a friend before I send them. Feedback from my friend on Monday: "You have great chat. I have lost all flirting capabilities. If I lose [partner] I'm screwed." I just typically don't like to waste much time chatting with people on apps, I prefer to just meet up, but I'm hearing that I should spend more time chatting with them. I also hear you about filtering on qualifications, though I am MA educated, I usually filter to undergrad, but can try not doing that. I agree that if they have an interesting background and career it hardly matters what their quals are.

Racism is playing a part. And antisemitism has been an issue, and culturally my religion does play a part in my life, so although I may get more matches if I don't put it in, they wouldn't likely be good ones.