to think there must be something wrong with me that I can't seem to meet somebody?

[Ratatwat]

I'm a young (late 20s) healthy and fit woman. I have many hobbies, don't want to say too much as could be outing I suppose (long time reader first time poster) but they are very active. I guess I can say I'm running a marathon in a couple of weeks and it's not my first, I have a high powered job making more than twice the UK median salary and I own a flat in Zone 2 London (mortgaged) and a car. I actively volunteer and am part of several other organisation/group type things.

All my family is overseas so I am very independent, but I have a fabulous group of friends. If they are busy, I travel alone with my pet or go somewhere abroad to run a race myself but travel in groups with them (prepandemic) so am hardly sitting around waiting for a man.

But I've also put a lot of effort into trying to meet someone. I've asked to be set up, and gone the few times friends have set me up on dates. I've been on the apps for years with horrible, awful results. I even tried speed dating recently (also bloody awful). I don't just mean that I felt the men weren't good-looking enough for me or something shallow like under 6ft tall, I mean they were unable to make a conversation for even 4 minutes, barely spoke English so we just couldn't communicate, vastly age inappropriate despite the event parameters, extraordinarily unfit (so incompatible lifestyles), etc. I even asked out a colleague (would be inappropriate except he said he's leaving the job now) who is the only person who I've met in person and found attractive and know to be employed etc but although he said an enthusiastic yes at first when I tried to get a specific time/day out of him he's backed off. I don't get it.

Obviously, many people have had bad experiences online, but most of mine have been exceptionally bad. I mean, racial abuse and an actual sexual assault. So I have given up that. My last ex of about a year was a setup from a friend and what you'd all call a cocklodger, and an emotionally abusive one at that. He abruptly dumped me in a very abusive way on the day the rumours of the lockdown started (he called his mum to get him while I was out of the flat!).

I don't think I deserved any of that! I'm a very caring person in addition to being very 'together'. My only 'drawback' is that I have depression, but it is well managed. I see a private consultant (at high cost) and take my medication and do exercise, eat well, sleep regularly, etc and it doesn't really inhibit anything. Obviously, I sound negative right now, but I'm not a particularly negative person. I'm considered a pretty funny (somewhat dry) person.

I really don't know what else I'm meant to do at this point. I am happy to spend time by myself, but I am getting lonely now. I do a lot of things, as I said, work and volunteering and hobbies, but since the pandemic my social life hasn't returned to normal. I am reaching out to friends but the coupled up ones have retreated into their couples and are only spending time with each other or travelling together, and I'm excluded. We don't go to the theatre anymore. Even my running club doesn't meet regularly anymore. I used to be out almost 5 nights a week, out more often than not, now I'm often home alone on a given night and I recently did a domestic weeklong holiday (I know, this isn't a 'staycation') and I ended up going myself because I couldn't get a friend to come. Later I found out online that the very day I left this UK beauty spot, a group of my slightly older and coupled up friends went to the exact same place. They knew I was going there alone and not by choice and didn't even tell me. I would have loved to go with them, or even just meet that day as I left and they came for dinner or something, but no. I was so hurt.

Sorry this is so long. I just feel like honestly, when I open up to people about this in real life they tell me I have so much going for me. I objectively have a great job and am a high achiever, I am fairly attractive and fit, I am 'successful' and interesting, I'm independent and not looking for someone to take care of me and have no kids and don't need anyone's money or anything. I just want someone to go away with me for the weekend, go out for dinner after work, maybe even cheer me on at the finish line and hold my jacket. Is that really unattainable?

Is there something I'm not trying that I should be?

I know it's long, I don't want to drip feed.

I know people who have a lot of success on Tinder, but you will have to go through a lot of frogs as well The worst was one a friend went on, the man said on his profile he was 32, 5ft 11in and athletic an the pictures he supplied looked like that, in reality he was 40+, 5ft 6in, and 4 stone overweight, or the man with halitosis so bad he could smell it 6ft away, or the man who spent the entire date talking about his love of Jesus, but she also met some lovely men as well and ended up married to one of them.

The other thing might be that you are missing the men who are interested in real life. You sound a bit like my brother in a way, he is successful career wise (earns well into six figures), fit and healthy (he will do a 20k+ walk or jog on a Saturday morning for fun and a 50k bike ride on a Sunday morning "because he got bored), he has a six pack, good teeth etc. all my friends think he is hot (but they are married now). He is a lovely guy, great with kids (almost a second father to my two), very intelligent etc. but he also lacks self esteem when it comes to dating, he will chat with someone and she could be hugely hitting on him and he just does not see it, ending up with a kind of "she was nice to talk to" situation, but missing so many opportunities because he seems to miss the blindingly obvious when it comes to attractive women. So what I am wondering is are you missing it when the attractive guy is hitting on you, are you subconsciously dismissing it because you think he won't really be interested?

How about you create a new Tinder profile (use a fresh one if you have an old one). Swipe right on all the decent men who come up in range, message the ones who match and do the usual first few messages, then ask them if they want to go for a coffee, and go for a coffee with the ones you accept.

@LaetitiaASD I don’t think I have a very specific physical type, honestly. The men I have dated have been of varied height, hair and eye colour, body type and ethnicity and religion.

@Freeloadingtosser sorry, I don’t know how to answer your questions fully without it being too much?

I’ve spoken to a couple of male friends of over 15 years about this, one very recently for a long time. One I suspect has had romantic interest previously but now lives in another country with a partner so it feels like safe territory. He says all he can think of is that men find me intimidating. And that thank god he doesn’t have to use the apps as he is dating someone he met at university. He also spoke to me about his relationship issues in that conversation. It was over FaceTime.

It’s entirely possible I’m not filtering well. I am open to advice on how to do this. I have chosen not to use the apps anymore a few weeks ago as they ground me down so much and have been going to speed dating events. At those, naturally the only filter is the age the organisers set. So I can’t predict at all beyond that who comes. If the consensus is I need to give the apps another try (which have worked best?) I will take filtering advice. I’ve obviously tried age, what they are looking for, employment status and education level and lack of children and non smokers and as I have a dog they can’t hate dogs either, seems like a lot of filtering already. The additional filtering could happen on messaging, but in my experience I have spent a long time messaging with people who then flake, I think they don’t think of people as real when they’re just photos on an app. But I am open to advice on this. Chat more, longer? Withhold my mobile number?

@MatildaIThink you are absolutely right that I have been told by friends as we walked away from a bar etc “He was flirting with you!” And I had no idea, assumed he was out of my league, it never crossed my mind. This isn’t happening now, as in the situation in which this could potentially happen is not arising. I’m not going out enough to encounter people/people aren’t approaching where this might be a question.

You sound great and what l always say is
Remember you only need to meet ONE guy as long as he is the right one!:
Could you join horse riders on a holiday solely for that as be your type?
Or take up trekking at weekends with a club as you are in good shape and be well able for it
Or go on a skiing holidays for singles
These all mean meeting outdoor types which is what you need .
Could you get involved with a fundraiser things around running or horse riding to meet new people?
Also l think counselling is always worthwhile as it makes you more confident and helps you come across at your best...when l say you l mean all of us.
Remember the pandemic slowed everything down so things will hopefully start being more exciting again so be more opportunities.
Sometimes forgetting all about meeting someone and just having fun causes things to happen.

[quote Ratatwat]@MatildaIThink you are absolutely right that I have been told by friends as we walked away from a bar etc “He was flirting with you!” And I had no idea, assumed he was out of my league, it never crossed my mind. This isn’t happening now, as in the situation in which this could potentially happen is not arising. I’m not going out enough to encounter people/people aren’t approaching where this might be a question.[/quote]
Tinder it is then! Pick a few pics of yourself that you really love, write a short, concise accurate profile, eg. interests, that you are looking for dates hopefully leading to a relationship, height (short men will often self filter). Swipe right on all the men you who come up that you like this evening, do the same tomorrow, message the matches and ask the hottest one for a coffee on Saturday and the second hottest one for a coffee on Sunday, if either declines then pick another.

You honestly sound great. I would date you!

I think a large part of the problem is honestly that 90% of men are shite, and you have high standards. Which of course isn’t actually a problem at all! I think it just means you will take a little longer to find someone who is suitable and compatible.

I know that’s really frustrating, but I think if you just hang in there your lobster will come.

Only messaging the hottest guys on online dating apps is a challenging way to go about it though. The hottest 2-5% of guys are dating and sleeping with the top 20-25% of females on apps on the regular, they aren't getting off the apps and they aren't into monogamy.

If you're trying to filter guys, you're better off trying to find guys who are new to the app and online dating in general. The worst person you can go on a date with is a guy who is a serial online dater. You can spot them because their profiles are quite polished, their messages are quite engaging.

It's almost better to find the dull guy with the average profile pic (but where you can still tell he is good looking in real life but maybe didn't select the best photo or selected a boring photo).

Any guy with a profile that's really engaging is a serial online dater, their profile is so good because they've refined it from years of online dating.

I actually have never used Tinder I have tried OkCupid (worst) and Hinge and Bumble. Hinge, very little activity, Bumble, hundreds of matches a week if not thousands but almost none replied to me within the window (I tried everything from just “hi” to referencing their profile to gifs to a joke, it made no difference). I am willing to try! I’ve always naturally steered clear of the hottest guys, inherently suspicious of them, like how poisonous snakes are brightly coloured I guess .

Maybe I just needed to hear that I should keep trying. I did honestly get very worn down by the “I’ve always wanted to fuck a [minority religion] girl” messages and the “what else do you ride?” but I could try doing it for no more than 20 minutes an evening while I make dinner or something? (And drink)

And just to add @junebirthdaygirl thank you - I do have counselling thanks for the wise reminder, I’m in a running club but our meetings and attendance have dropped off and I was thinking about another one.

I have a horse riding club too which seems to be 100% female and suspect horse riding events will be about the same except for the reluctant husbands who are driving the lorries and taking photos. Never hurts to continue doing more of these which I am always looking for as I love them. Next competition the week before the marathon, here’s hoping I don’t fall off, that would be shite.

I’ll have a think about any other activities I might be able to join when I can free up some of the training time in a couple of weeks.

I think you sound lovely OP. Depressingly, I think it's true that many men are intimidated by a woman who has her shit together - at your age many of them won't be as accomplished and may not want to feel inferior.

How did you meet your last boyfriend? Do you have any male friends you could ask honestly for feedback. I hesitate to say that even because it's not like you are really doing anything 'wrong' as such, you just haven't met any good matches for you. Or you could ask male friends if they know anyone you would be interested in, that way they would come with a recommendation .

Also, I do think culturally there is a bit of a difference, my impression of the US was dating was more formal (going steady vs. not) whereas in the UK I think it's much more relaxed (drunken fumble in the pub), but I could be wrong.

If you are a runner, are there any men there that interest you, at least you would have a shared interest. Quite honestly, not wanting kids means the time pressure is off, which is great.

@Ratatwat

I actually have never used Tinder I have tried OkCupid (worst) and Hinge and Bumble. Hinge, very little activity, Bumble, hundreds of matches a week if not thousands but almost none replied to me within the window (I tried everything from just “hi” to referencing their profile to gifs to a joke, it made no difference). I am willing to try! I’ve always naturally steered clear of the hottest guys, inherently suspicious of them, like how poisonous snakes are brightly coloured I guess .

Maybe I just needed to hear that I should keep trying. I did honestly get very worn down by the “I’ve always wanted to fuck a [minority religion] girl” messages and the “what else do you ride?” but I could try doing it for no more than 20 minutes an evening while I make dinner or something? (And drink)

When you say minority religion, is that a big thing to you, the religion? Is it on your profile? I am just wondering if some men might self limit as they think that someone of X religion would only want to date someone else of the same religion, where as most people these days aren't religious.

@CreepingDeath depressingly, bad news on both counts! My bad ex was introduced to me by a friend. But she only barely knew him. They met at an Extinction Rebellion protest. While I’m pro-planet not burning down this isn’t really my thing so I wasn’t there. She randomly texted me that she wanted to set me up with someone. I asked if she just met him on the street and she said no, it was at the protest. I said “So it was on the street, then.” Unfortunately he was both very attractive and charming and had just finished his MA so I thought she might be into something. And he did take me in a formal dinner date which went really well. Unfortunately, it went south fairly fast. I guess she didn’t know him that well. Unfortunately I haven’t been set up again although I keep asking, everyone insists they don’t have any single friends.

I also had a short fling with someone in my running club. This was a mistake. He too was very attractive though not my usual type, a little bit younger but in a profession I admire (a civic duty not well paid but good for society type one). I had no idea he was chatting me up for weeks - I thought we were becoming friends. One day he basically said exactly that to me, “I’ve been chatting you up for weeks.” I said it wasn’t a good idea, it’s a small closely-knit group, it would ruin the whole group dynamic, etcetera. He basically wore me down insisting it wouldn’t be awkward, he really really liked me, he wanted something real with me. But he got in my knickers and then abruptly dumped me. And it was horribly awkward. It had been a “secret” but I got very ill (I actually think he gave me glandular fever…) and the whole group came over to my flat to drop off a care package, and they couldn’t find my address. He was the one who said “Oh, it’s over there.” So everyone cottoned on. It was after he had dumped me. I found out a while later. I was embarrassed and hurt and angry with him because I hadn’t thought it was a good idea in the first place but he had been relentless. I was pretty cold to him for awhile so he stayed away and went to a different chapter and years later he has a girlfriend I think I’ve never met her, he’s not a friend and we barely speak but at least it’s not as awkward for me. I would never do this again though.

I'm a man, but not a potential candidate, for several reasons that all reflect on my availability and eligibility, rather than yours. I just wanted to to give another vote that there's nothing wrong with you.

I think you need to find a way to meet more and better men, but I don't know the answer to how you do that.

I agree with DrSbaitso's point that many of the things you are rightfully proud of don't necessarily matter much to a man looking for a partner. Having said that, they are part of a picture of an intelligent high-functioning person, who is attractive for that reason, so they're not completely irrelevant. If you were writing a comprehensive advert for yourself, I wouldn't leave them out.

The fact that you have such a full life is a bit exhausting to contemplate. It's not clear if your busyness would be a positive or negative factor. It would be negative if it made a lot of demands on my time and energy, but it could mean you are so busy with your own things that you are very low maintenance. Overall, it wouldn't be put me off wanting to find out if thinks could work, so I don't think you need to hide or downplay this.

Usually the problem with someone in your situation is that they have very high expectations, or are very demanding, but you don't seem like that at all.

@MatildaIThink ok so I am Jewish, and I am also an atheist. I have found compared to America fewer people here are familiar with or have met Jewish people and this is not understood. I have also encountered more blatant antisemitism here and I would prefer to avoid that so I put it on my profile for that reason. I am culturally Jewish, spiritually agnostic I would say. This is common for us but not necessarily other religions. By that I mean I attend synagogue and observe holidays but not every edict, like I don’t eat pork but I do eat cheeseburgers, and I worked today on the holiest day of the year (and skipped breakfast but didn’t fast) and went to services last night but won’t tonight. It seems totally arbitrary, because it is. I do what I want because it makes me happy. Much of my volunteering is associated with the religious organisation, but it is not compelled by religion, it is just a community thing for me. When I moved to this country alone I knew nobody and it was a way to instantly have some people around to welcome me. I do not need to date a Jewish man and especially as I don’t want children it’s not important and my family couldn’t care less (and I wouldn’t care if they did). In some ways it would be more complicated to date someone Jewish, because the varied levels of faith and observance would make us less likely to be compatible. But by not mentioning it upfront I’ve ended up on dates with someone who’s said something blatantly racist and felt uncomfortable, as much as it sucks to get messages about how “sexy and exotic” Jewish girls are (I’m from the suburbs…) I’d rather have it online than in person where I can’t block and report them. If they are a bigot or are going to mind that at least 2x a month I’m going to light some candles or something they should self select out. Does that make sense?

@RandomLondoner thank you for your response.

The main issue with my busyness in the past has actually been that I’ve felt guilty when stepping out the door to go for a running club thing because I knew my boyfriend or the guy I was seeing at the time was going to just sit around at home (and not, god forbid, make a start on dinner or anything useful). Literally he would just be sitting on my sofa playing on his phone the whole time. So I felt I had to get back, couldn’t linger at the pub after, I’d invite him to meet me there but he said he didn’t want to although he was welcome and other people’s partners did.

I just want to know they have their own stuff going on - their own passion and hobby. I am actually really not looking for another marathon runner, I don’t really want to run together, I am happy for you to go play golf Saturday mornings while I run and then we go out together in the evening (or stay in).

Yeah, I think it comes down to needing to meet more and better men!

You sound amazing. As I bisexual horse loving woman I would be all over you

It makes me sad to see you analysing what is wrong with you. The answer is NOTHING. The problem lies with the fact that the majority of men absolutely suck.

Have you read Female Dating Stratergy on Reddit? I would strongly recommend it. Keep on being amazing.

Hmm. How is work? Obviously harder if you are remote working, but that is how a lot of 20 and 30 somethings meet people.

Also, you need more single friends - both because it will improve your life and because some of them might know eligible men. London is full of interesting single women who are on for doing stuff so this should be very achievable.

Keep going, you'll find the right guy eventually but seeing as you don't have time constraints involving children, how about factoring in you- enforced breaks from looking, rather than covid- enforced breaks? I have to say these speed dating events sound pretty exhausting and I know how stressful it gets when you really want to meet someone. This might just make you ease the pressure on yourself.

I would also recommend a paid dating site, not bumble etc (don't know if OK cupid is). Match has been good for me, bit of a long story as to why I'm single for now, it's related to a change in my circumstances, but I met someone quickly who could have otherwise been a good thing, and will be meeting someone soon who sounds really nice. I have had a lot less of the drivel you describe, too, compared to the other apps.

Also, as you sound solvent, what about a paid- for, old fashioned dating agency? No experience myself but they've been going decades so must have some success!

As per your filtering technique, it is tough but I'd say the chat is the key point for this. Maybe you could start requesting a video call before you meet, doesn't have to be long or elaborate but could at least determine who can hold a conversation.

Also, I see where people are coming from with the 'men are just intimidated' advice, but there is usually more to it (there is with me, certainly) so be wary of settling on this as the only possible issue. Friends will jump to this as it is kind and probably to an extent, or with the wrong men, true. Many stratospherically successful people have happy partnerships, and many with much more modest achievements struggle though. That's not to say there are necessarily faults with someone's character, looks, achievements or anything like that. More things like giving the wrong people too much of a chance, outlook, conversational style, emotional availability (just examples). Could be anything but needs thought.

OP I think MatildaIThink brother sounds perfect for you 😂

@JoanOgden work is very stressful, and mostly remote. We have an office but are not required to come in, I usually go one day a week at minimum to attend a team meeting in person which my boss appreciates and have a regular dog sitter for this day. When I can get ad hoc dog care I go other days and I sometimes bring the dog for a half day to everyone’s delight. But the office is never at capacity, and I’ve not seen any other prospects than the one I mentioned who’s given me extremely mixed messages (“Yes, come to my neighbourhood away from work and bring your dog and let’s have that drink” last week to “let’s talk next week when I’m in the office” yesterday). Most people have partners even at work, not that I’m interested in them either, and we are all overworked and stressed out. We haven’t done much socialising together. It’d be nice if we had a work social and people brought friends. I hear that will start up soon.

@Freeloadingtosser I know I have given the wrong people too much of a chance, certainly, but this was on the advice of friends to give people more of a chance. I recently nearly made it to a fourth date with someone I didn’t even like in the first place because friends kept telling me to give him a chance, for all his flaws he seemed “nice” at least. The last straw was that he’d not planned any of the first 3 dates and was 40 minutes late to the 3rd, I asked him to plan the 4th and bear in mind it would be after I did a 16+ mile training run in the morning and that it would be raining. He suggested we meet at the south bank for a walk. I said ok but I’m not sure how much walking I’d be up for as I would be tired and would need to eat first and feed and walk the dog, would there be anything else he would prefer to do perhaps nearer me indoors and he said “you plan it then” so I said actually, I don’t think I want to meet again. And my friends said I was being harsh. I don’t think I was.

I think my emotional availability and conversation and pretty much general human-ing is okay because I do well making friends and get on with colleagues, have many normal and pleasant interactions throughout the day that lead me to believe I am relatively approachable and that I come across ok. I interview well for jobs, etc. I don’t know. But those are the other situations where you have to come across well to people and I manage.

@Wegobshite yeah agreed @MatildaIThink he anywhere near London? Have car will travel?

@CrumpetStrumpet no but I do like to read the Twitter compilation of Reddit relationship problems; makes me glad I’m single sometimes I will have a look

In that situation, I don't think you should have worried about what he was doing. As long as you were both happy with the amount and quality of your together time, it shouldn't matter what you each do in your apart time. If he's bored, that should be 100% his issue to sort out.

If he needed you to entertain him, he wasn't the right person for you.

If he wasn't actually complaining, then your guilt manufactured a problem out of nothing. You gave yourself a responsibility you didn't have, then regarded him as problematic for not helping you solve a problem that wasn't yours to solve.

You've said a couple of times that you need a man to have his own passions. It does make it sound as if you're demand he have hobbies or interests that measure up to your standards. That would be a bit unreasonable, I think an absence of neediness is the most your should be expecting.

I'm trying hard here to find possible problems. I think it's quite likely you've done nothing wrong.

My last post was in reply to your comment to me re. busyness.

Hmm. I think I have quite low standards but in truth perhaps I'm just very sure what I want. I want someone I fancy and can have great sex with and who wants to be in a relationship, and who enjoys some of the things I like. Thats partly because of my stage of life - I'm in my 50s and no longer interested in having a family.

I would stop worrying about what you have to offer and think about what you want from the other person. Positive things. Also, maybe get more exclusive - go upper end on the apps? There are some niche ones. Sad that 'employed, doesn't slump in front of the telly 5 nights a week' is high end but it can be.

The other thing is, maybe think about therapy? I had it for over 2 years while dating and am handling the relationship im in now very differently from any I've had before.