To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

Because I dont have 2hrs in the morning to get to work or I dont want to get home at 7 in the evening and I dont fancy doing it when it rains or when it is dark outside.

I was replying to Rozziie, the app is really poor. Why does it remove my quotes. Not to mention not supporting multiple quotes.

No, dear, I'm making the point that a lot of people are going to be very upset that they can no longer go on holiday abroad or see loved ones abroad once the dust settles. The routes won't be there. The affordable. flights won't be there.

Well, dear, you do think that telling people to book flights, to keep your flights cheaper 'isn't a bad idea'.

So yes, you would like the rest if use to pay for flights to keep yourself cheaper. Beyond entitled, to think telling people they must book flights so yours are cheaper, is a good idea.

Why couldn't you incorporate the exercise into your commute? That's what I used to do. I despite having to make special plans to go and exercise rather than just having a commute to do and somewhere to actually get to.

Not sure you have a realistic view of comkutting or exercise for a large amount if people. Not even really sure why women would choose to work exercisse into a daily commute, wheb they could work from home and actually exercise as they wished instead.

I always find it odd when people say they have spoke to someone in a customer service role, who has kids in the back ground. What sort of roles are these?

Really not sure how that's an argument to suggest hybrid or wfh can't work for a lot of people though.

All the people I know who enjoy WFH say things like “it’s great - I can hang out the washing, go for a walk, pop to the shops, watch TV, prepare dinner” and so on. That’s what I always remember when I’m on endless hold to some company who says they’re experiencing a high volume of calls lately and staff may take longer to answer!

I have commented upthread, but just to add, I wrested the chance to wfh one day a week from an absolute bitch of a micro managing boss. There was no reason not to have it in place. We had all the necessary technology and systems. She just wanted to be a bitch.

I'm guessing that when wfh became the norm in 2020, it killed her. Not literally more's the pity

I'm sick of staff not being available from 2.30 to 4 for meetings. That is a large chunk of working hours unavailable for pickup time. If they were in the office they world be available at those times.

@Bagamoyo1

All the people I know who enjoy WFH say things like “it’s great - I can hang out the washing, go for a walk, pop to the shops, watch TV, prepare dinner” and so on. That’s what I always remember when I’m on endless hold to some company who says they’re experiencing a high volume of calls lately and staff may take longer to answer!

I'm sure we can all remember waiting an eternity on the phone prior to 2020!

My large, government employer has much lower average call wait times now compared to pre-pandemic. Part timers have been able to increase their hours WFH, sick and other emergency leave has plummeted.

Imagine how much worse your wait time on the phones would have been over the last year or 2 if all those call workers who were isolating had to stop work completely for a fortnight.

But who is paying for the extra bedroom? Certainly not the employer. So you either work from a tiny cramped space or you find somewhere with an extra bedroom, at your own expense, effectively taking a massive paycut so you have somewhere comfortable to work.

For me personally, it's worth the functional pay cut, because I did enough evening and weekend work that I needed - and already had - a home office set up. But if it's not worth it to enough people, then market forces will demand that employers pass at least some of their savings on office space on to workers in the form of higher salaries.

Why couldn't you incorporate the exercise into your commute?

I can't imagine how I'd incorporate exercise into a 30-minute drive, but even if I somehow could, I think my employer would frown upon me showing up at the office wearing gym clothes and dripping sweat. And I'm not about to start wearing my nice suits to exercise in, or change into them afterwards without showering first. The commute is the trade-off for living in a nice area where I can safely bike and run on the streets, and I'd much rather do that than some bizarre form of calisthenics while stopped at red lights.

@Rollercoaster1920

I'm sick of staff not being available from 2.30 to 4 for meetings. That is a large chunk of working hours unavailable for pickup time. If they were in the office they world be available at those times.

Why can't the rule just be the same as (I presume) it was before: if they want to take time off during the work day, it needs to approved through the usual procedures, and if they go AWOL too many times, they're fired? WFH may make it easier for some employees to take advantage of lax or selective enforcement at the expense of others, but the problem is really the lax enforcement.

I completely agree OP - for all the reasons you’ve said, as well as others, like how people are faring when they don’t have adequate space at home to work properly.

I definitely think I’d benefit from a mixture of WFH and going into the office.

WFH has changed my life. I don’t ever want to go back to the office every day or even most days. Services will have to go where they’re needed. Not the other way round.

I don’t mind answering the odd email in the evening. The bit of extra work I do is worth it to not have to do the commute and have a better work life balance overall. I work in public services and I answer my mobile pretty much immediately every time so long as I’m not in a meeting.

I don’t think managers have time or capacity to enforce anything further because I imagine they’re very busy with their existing workload and responsibilities.

Oops sorry - my last post was in reply to PurpleOkapi’s post. For some reason, I couldn’t quote Purple’s original post.

@TwoShoess

I don’t think managers have time or capacity to enforce anything further because I imagine they’re very busy with their existing workload and responsibilities.

It was always a manager's job to make sure people are present and working efficiently, that shouldn't have changed at all. There are plenty of ways to do this remotely, and always have been - managing people who are in various locations or out in the field has been a thing since before 2020!

I think a lot of people on this thread are unfairly linking shit service they've received and/or shit company practices to WFH. It's likely that these companies were always shit - they've had almost 2 years to get a grip on this situation!

WFH is a gift for controlling spouses.

^

Let's face it, if you have a controlling spouse, they'll find any way to control. Wfh irregardless. That's what control is.

@TwoShoess

I don’t think managers have time or capacity to enforce anything further because I imagine they’re very busy with their existing workload and responsibilities.

MN doesn't allow multiquotes, so you can't quote me because I quoted you. You can use @ in front of someone's name to notify them that you're replying to them.

Pre-covid, managers always seemed to be able to enforce these things just fine when they so chose, though of course some were stricter than others, and favoritism was often an issue. But generally, anyone who said "Sorry, I can't do a 3:00 meeting because I'm picking my children up from school" would be in a fair amount of trouble if this was neither an emergency nor approved in advance. Everyone knew that, which is why it was rarely an issue. All they'd have to do is announce that they would be enforcing this rule starting two weeks from now, then throw the book at the first 1-2 people who broke it. They must have disciplined people occasionally pre-covid, or everyone would have been doing it all the time, so this just doesn't sound like that much extra work to me.

@CharityDingle

I have commented upthread, but just to add, I wrested the chance to wfh one day a week from an absolute bitch of a micro managing boss. There was no reason not to have it in place. We had all the necessary technology and systems. She just wanted to be a bitch.

I'm guessing that when wfh became the norm in 2020, it killed her. Not literally more's the pity

People who can't manage effectively are always 9/10 micro managers and their worst nightmare is wfh as they see it as a loss of control. Madly enough if they weren't such lazy managers they can effectively manage much better when WFH actually and have more control than ever before and it's easier to monitor someone's work remotely rather than watching over their shoulder hovering (like that ever gives a true indication of work output)

People leave managers, not jobs on the whole. I for one am sorry about your manager.

Would love to support the idea of wfh but like the OP I find the quality of customer service has bucketed - I’m mainly talking about business to business - finance dept, don’t answer emails, pay bills, issue Purchase Orders - when previously we did have a problem - we deal with more than one business and across the board it has all become more difficult. I sit on the phone for an hour to our back, half an hour to the insurance company - they all blame COVID and WFH and I don’t understand how everyone is supposedly much productive when WFH and yet no one can answer a phone or an email or fix a query in a reasonable period of time any longer - it’s bloody annoying,

@Bakingtraypan the problem is with this argument is a) bad managers really struggle to manage effectively in pandemic, one of the issues are the managers not holding people accountable not WFH. B) It's easier to manage effectively in pandemic if you knew how to manage before. To many lazy managers who don't know their heads from their tails and typically a company who hires managers like this have always had long wait times to contact, pre pandemic.

Also most businesses have seen a steady increase in contact during the day when typically people would be quieter. Contact patterns have changed and planning for this has made resourcing issues a nightmare as it's like trying to predict the weather based on clouds in the sky. The patterns of contact used to be fairly predictable they are not at the moment. This will settle.

Where i am the trains and buses are busier than ever

Anyone tried to run a hybrid meeting yet - with some people wfh and some in a conference room together. We haven’t managed to make that combination a success yet - very hard to connect remotely on a screen to a group of people talking in a room , the dynamics are awful.

Re driving licence, if you applied online it is still a fast process in under a week, if you have to submit a paper application and/or have to supply a photo as they can't use a previous photo or passport photo, then the current delays ( due to covid and strike action) is 10-12 weeks.
I called dvla on 0300 790 6801, tried about 5 times before I got through, on hold waiting for an agent for 20 mins. Nice lady checked the progress of my application, said it would be about 2 more weeks and it arrived when she said. Hope that helps

@Bakingtraypan

Anyone tried to run a hybrid meeting yet - with some people wfh and some in a conference room together. We haven’t managed to make that combination a success yet - very hard to connect remotely on a screen to a group of people talking in a room , the dynamics are awful.

We use conference or teams video in on or off. Sometimes we might have a few people in one room for teams if they are all in office and can't find a quiet room on there own.

We ditched conference calls quite early on.

That seems to work.

@Bagamoyo1

All the people I know who enjoy WFH say things like “it’s great - I can hang out the washing, go for a walk, pop to the shops, watch TV, prepare dinner” and so on. That’s what I always remember when I’m on endless hold to some company who says they’re experiencing a high volume of calls lately and staff may take longer to answer!

If you are wfh in a call centre, you can't really leave your desk all the time. Its heavily monitored, just like it was when they were in the office. Long absences would be picked up very quickly.

People working flexibly or being missing from their desk, won't be the reason you are waiting.