To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

WFH is a gift for controlling spouses.

Yes but stopping wfh isn't the answer

I’m jolly pleased you’ve found a job but in the overall scheme of things you do not I’m afraid rate in the top 1,000 things that I have to worry about.

But you're worrying about coffee shop workers? 🤔

Why aren't their kids in childcare or school though?

To be fair, this was initially sprung on people with no notice. Schools were closed for quite some time, and so were most childcare services. Many people relied on schools for childcare and couldn't afford to pay for it elsewhere, and even for those who could, group childcare was banned in most areas. Even now, schools keep closing and reopening, and children keep getting quarantined and having to stay home. The inability of many parents to afford paid full-day childcare hasn't really changed, and if a child is supposed to be quarantining after exposure, you can't just put them in a group daycare setting.

But the problem with all that is schools, not WFH. Ordering the parents back to the office won't solve anything, because those with young children would just have to miss any day when their child wasn't in school. I guess they'd eventually get fired for absenteeism, which would be better for the business, but wouldn't address the underlying problem.

I was under the impression that now most school/childcare settings were open & as contacts don't need to isolate far more dc are in their particular setting.

Going back last year this wasn't the case.

@gibletjane

I’m jolly pleased you’ve found a job but in the overall scheme of things you do not I’m afraid rate in the top 1,000 things that I have to worry about.

But you're worrying about coffee shop workers? 🤔

Yes. They're the most people ever. So much so that we should both subjugate our own happiness, and our ability to provide for our own families, lest they be made unhappy in any way. We should also be required to buy coffee at a shop at least twice per day, to ensure their continued job security.

(That was sarcasm, to be clear, but it seems to be what some people actually believe.)

@gibletjane

I was under the impression that now most school/childcare settings were open & as contacts don't need to isolate far more dc are in their particular setting.

Going back last year this wasn't the case.

That's not true in most of the US. I've lost track of what's happening in the UK, but if that's the case, I'm glad to hear it.

Re coffee workers, i's odd because I'm not sure they were doing so well pre covid but many didn't seem bothered about them then.

@PurpleOkapi oh yes sorry that was a UK perspective. My childminder/nursery/school were all shut at various points but all been back a while now & positive cases don't result in the whole bubble self isolating any more.

[quote LadyWithLapdog]@Rozziie it’s perplexing you’re banging the drum for office work when it’s quite obvious you don’t like people much. What do you hope to get out of it?[/quote]
I want people to consider that WFH isn't good for lots of people in the long term and that lots of people just don't have the space to do it and remain mentally well. Is that so hard to comprehend?

@Tealightsandd

This is old but it's still relevant.

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/30/no-return-workers-offices-could-cost-uk-economy-480bn-pounds-cebr

Of course WFH is great for the privileged. Inequality will increase but plenty don't care about that. For people who don't have the luxury of being able to afford a comfortable spacious home working environment, opportunities will be lost.

Many roles will be limited to people with housing privilege.

It's also shit for young people just starting out. Miserable and isolating. WFH is for older affluent workers with large homes and at a settled stage of life. It's crap for others (and for customers/clients).

Yes, of course this is all true, but you won't convince all the I'm Alright Jacks on this thread.

@Rozziie but you recognise that for some wfh has improved their mental health?

I agree that WFH isn't all it's cracked up to be. I used to be self-employed and hated having to bring clients' work home and do it here. I much preferred going to their offices instead.

Being at home, I never felt in 'business mode' if you see what I mean - my motivation was nowhere near what it should have been, and I got nothing like as much done.

When did I say I was worrying about coffee shop workers? The coffee culture is relatively new. When I started work there was nowhere to go for a coffee - well, maybe a dinky tea room type place or a greasy spoon. But no one ever hung out in a coffee shop, let alone got a takeaway! I did say that ime men were not big on local coffee shops.

I still maintain that wfh is great if you have the right circumstances. Wfh is not so great if you are a youngster stuck in your bedroom. What I see on here is a complete lack of ability to see another’s position . And that poster who had a go at me - again, they have no idea of my circumstances, but leapt to promote their own situation .

I want people to consider that WFH isn't good for lots of people in the long term and that lots of people just don't have the space to do it and remain mentally well. Is that so hard to comprehend?

Did anyone say it was good for everyone?

I thought the point was that it was good for some people and people should be able to do it, if it works for them.

@DottyHarmer

When did I say I was worrying about coffee shop workers? The coffee culture is relatively new. When I started work there was nowhere to go for a coffee - well, maybe a dinky tea room type place or a greasy spoon. But no one ever hung out in a coffee shop, let alone got a takeaway! I did say that ime men were not big on local coffee shops.

I still maintain that wfh is great if you have the right circumstances. Wfh is not so great if you are a youngster stuck in your bedroom. What I see on here is a complete lack of ability to see another’s position . And that poster who had a go at me - again, they have no idea of my circumstances, but leapt to promote their own situation .

You complained earlier in the thread that that efh wasn't good for your ds, why shouldn't anyone care?

You also queried wether someone was simply saying they couldn't be arsed training young people. What would be the issue if that's what they meant? Why should they care about the young people?

If you don't care that wfh has enabled people to find work, why would you expect them to care wether them wanting to satu at home impacts your son?

And again, I can't see any posters claiming wfh is good for everybody.

I can see lots of posters saying it needs to stop, wether ots good for you or not because of various nonsensical reasons.

@DottyHarmer

All this “local coffee shops are booming” business…

I did a quick poll of wfh men I know. Not ONE has been to a coffee shop “to meet friends” and not ONE has bought lunch in a local cafe

Well you seem to care enough to carry out a poll...

I bloody hate being told I have to wait longer than usual because employees are working from home to protect them and their loved ones - that's bullshit, half of the workforce doesn't matter. I haven't got time to arse about waiting or trying to make contact within my own working hours and I'd rather take my business elsewhere.

What I see on here is a complete lack of ability to see another’s position

What like the below?

Actually I can’t work @NCBlossom , so, no, I don’t give a hoot about your particular circumstances. Why would I?

😆

Buses are ridiculously expensive, so if they have to cut their fleet, so be it.

I'm (ridiculously) sad about buses dying a death. If you can't drive, buses are AMAZING. They also lower traffic congestion, are better for the environment, and are lifesavers for old people. But nobody uses them.

😞

@NCBlossom

Ultimately I have no problem with someone WFH wanting to get back to some kind of office. (But you can do this now if you want)

You might want to do this because you are fed up/miss people/have relationship issues/just need it. Fair enough!

I do have a big problem with all the nonsense blanket statements that are just factually wrong just to back up wanting to not WFH - and trying to get it so that everyone has to go back to an office.

factually wrong and no data to back up assertions are

• economy diving
• coffee shop workers are starving
• the buses will stop
• the environment is going to hell (because houses (that already exist and don’t have to be built) are to be heated?!! Do you know how much of an environmental impact offices have?!)
• a work colleague does no work and you can’t get through to the council about your bins

This ^

[quote gibletjane]@Rozziie but you recognise that for some wfh has improved their mental health? [/quote]
Yes, and there were always options for people to work from home. The mass selling off of office space and push towards making employees take on the costs of working is creating a situation where there will no longer be offices to work from, or at least not as we knew them before. This to me is a terrible thing. People who wanted flexibility could always have gone freelance or applied for remote jobs, as I did when I wanted that. Now tons of people are getting screwed over and they have absolutely no say in it.

I disagree, whilst Sandwich shops or coffee shops on the route to work may be getting less customers, shops local to people's homes are reporting an increase in trade. Spending is still happening just in different areas. The shops that are affected need to look at other ways they can increase trading, offering deliveries is one way they could increase trade, or renting tables by the da for workers to work from.

As for buses, I hope they do suffer, it might make them rethink how they currently operate which is very outdated and very expensive. Many routes are disjointed and don't run from rural areas to city centres in time for office start and end times, fares are also expensive, journeys take 3 times longer by bus, which is why most commuters travel by car. Bus companies need to revisit their routes, timetables and fares if they want drivers to give up the car.
Times have changed and hybrid working will become the norm, will buses factor this in (why would I buy a weekly ticket if I only need the buy for two days for example)

Hybrid working does give a better life-work balance and is something that every business should embrace.

Yes, and there were always options for people to work from home.

I think it depends, for some this has been a good thing & improved their options.

Selling off office space has been happening in London pre covid. Unfortunately big business is always going to do what suits them.

People who wanted flexibility could always have gone freelance or applied for remote jobs, as I did when I wanted that.

I wouldn't say that it was that easy for everyone.

There will always be jobs that can't realistically be done remotely. There will always be people who prefer to work from the office. There will always be unreasonable bosses who want their underlings to work from the office while they themselves work remotely from a Caribbean beach house. So long as office space can be had for cheaper than the cost of an extra bedroom, then once things settle down, I expect many large employers to give office workers a choice.

@PurpleOkapi

There will always be jobs that can't realistically be done remotely. There will always be people who prefer to work from the office. There will always be unreasonable bosses who want their underlings to work from the office while they themselves work remotely from a Caribbean beach house. So long as office space can be had for cheaper than the cost of an extra bedroom, then once things settle down, I expect many large employers to give office workers a choice.

But who is paying for the extra bedroom? Certainly not the employer. So you either work from a tiny cramped space or you find somewhere with an extra bedroom, at your own expense, effectively taking a massive paycut so you have somewhere comfortable to work.