AIBU to think Shamima is not coming across well?

[HurryUpAndWait23]

I do really feel for her, she was an exploited child and went through what appeared to be repeatedly brutal experiences.

But whenever she talks, the attitude and "the world owes me" way in which she speaks is not helping her cause at all.

So white girls are groomed and brown ones can't be?

This is a stupid argument. The white girls you’re referring to were abused for decades. Generations of abused teenage girls.

It was ignored for years and years and years.

It’s still being ignored.

However if my lived experience makes you think I'm stupid then you are a moron

I didn’t comment on your lived experience. I commented on your inability to read a thread.

@Mischance

I think we have to accept that the Home Office and MI5 have information that leads them to decide she cannot come back. I have no doubt that she was groomed; but she was in it up to her neck and I doubt she will shake it off ever.

If she came back to UK I doubt she would be safe anyway - there will be those who wish her harm.

The Home Office are happy to deport 60 year old Jamaican's who have been in this country since they were babies. I don't think anyone should put too much trust in its capabilities.

@AngeloMysterioso

15 year olds are incredibly, incredibly dumb.

Greta Thunberg was 15 when she became a climate change activist and organised a nationwide school strike in Sweden.

Malala Yousafzai was 15 when the Taliban shot her in the head for fighting for her right to an education.

Thank you for stating this.

Not to mention the MILLIONS of 'brown' Syrians, youngsters in the ME, India, Pakistan and Afghanistan who have all somehow managed to avoid joining terrorist groups that incite violence. I managed it too despite growing up in a country where terrorism has been rife since I was 6 years old. My parent's office was blown up (they only just missed being in it), and amazingly I didn't feel the urge to go participate in the death and destruction of those responsible.

It enrages me that we, who live here in the UK, are fortunate enough to have a Govt with sufficient resources to do the due diligence that will keep them safe from people who would happily murder them and all their loved ones. And we still believe it's all a big massive conspiracy against women, ethnic minorities etc. Almost like it's hard to believe a brown woman can be capable of psychopathic tendencies or her own thought process.

I’ll admit I haven’t followed the case that closely.

What I will say is that I think that 15 year olds can be radicalised and they should be held accountable and offered (ultimately, if deemed possible) the chance to rehabilitate themselves

As others say. I dont want her back in this country. She is a grown women as as one of the interviewers said this morning - we demand that Greta Thumberg at 16 be listened to but this dangerous women didnt know what she was doing at 15.

Her comments about Boris needing her because he didnt know what he was doing was just complete nonsense. She comes across as entitled, spoilt, deluded and her comment about asking anyone with a ounce of compassion to forgive her was pathetic

@AngeloMysterioso - thise are remarkable and highly exceptional women. I am not making a remark to dismiss teenagers, but they are susceptible to being led astray moreso than adults and can make HUGE mistakes, and reform themselves and be ashamed of their past. Majid Nawaz and others are examples of people who were radicalised and have come around now. I am not belittling the trauma that terrorism reaps on people - it's horrific and we need to protect our young British Muslims from a romanticised version of it.

For what it's worth she won't be getting her "fair trial" or "ordinary life" IF she was allowed in the country. She's got zero chance of that and whoever is advising her THATS possible needs a reality check.

The fact is no one knows the risk she would pose. How many times has "intelligence" failed to stop attacks? People known to go and train in terrorist camps, came back, supposedly "not high risk" (not all, some were high risk but "fell off" the radar") an eye was kept on them (in theory) yet they kill others and themselves, in the uk and elsewhere.

It's true I had a sister who was caught in 7/7; and an old friend lost his brother at Manchester, so my response is coloured by that, and, I've no faith whatsoever in our governments so called intelligence services either.

@backtoschoolagainagain

JFC she was a CHILD when she joined ISIS.

If your 15 year old daughter got groomed online and ended up in ISIS wouldn't you want them home?

Of course her story is going to be different when she's free to speak and not scared that ISIS is going to hurt her and her baby.

JFC some stone cold people with empathy bypasses on this thread.

JFC. She was 15

Someone else mentioned the Bulger murderers. They were 10 but plenty people still think they deserved the death penalty.

So this 15 year old has to be excused because it wasn't her fault - and she was no innocent, keeping house and having babies

JFC

I felt sorry for her when it all first came out. However, since then she hasn't once shown remorse. She can stay where she is.

@Redgeraniums

I think most of the population really aren’t clever enough to understand this situation.

We should not be stripping people who are born here of their citizenship - ever.

She is only the second person this has ever happened to. And it’s worrying that people think it’s ok.

She is the one who didn’t want to be British. She wanted to be part of ISIS. She wanted to give birth to future ISIS killers. She wasn’t bothered about innocent people being beheaded. Their severed heads in a bin didn’t faze her!! She thought the Manchester bombing was justified. Tough if it killed young children! She backed the losing side. She now wants us to forgive her and let her come back to this country. No punishment from our legal system would be strong enough to make her suffer the way she deserves to!

I think your claim that “most of the population really aren’t clever enough to understand this situation” is very condescending! What makes you more understanding of the situation than the majority of the British population?

In answer to your statement…..we should be stripping people like this of British Citizenship. They do not deserve British Citizenship. They should never be allowed back in our country!

Do you honestly think she would have wanted to come back if ISIS had won?

I am an Indian migrant to the UK. I understand the arguments that she was groomed, and that at 16 she was very young. However, on balance I would still be very nervous about letting her back into the UK. Terrorists are very good are disguising true intent, as the attack on fishmongers hall demonstrates. I do not see true remorse in her interview..."if I have offended anyone" is not an apology in my book. She has clearly had a media consultation, hence the strappy top, baseball cap etc to make her look very western. I would bring her back, but keep her under very strict house arrest.

@Redgeraniums

I think most of the population really aren’t clever enough to understand this situation.

We should not be stripping people who are born here of their citizenship - ever.

She is only the second person this has ever happened to. And it’s worrying that people think it’s ok.

How utterly patronising, we don't all bow down to your opinion so weare thick! The thickos are those who are taken in by her faux scripted words, no doubt some lawyer here is telling her the picture she needs to paint. Those bleating about human rights, they seem to apply mainly to anyone who dies wrong. My human rights as a law abiding 73 year old, I did once get a parking ticket though, should trump those of criminals and those who support criminals.

(x-posted with five pages of replies so apologies if I've just repeated others comments)

Excellent post @todaysdilemma

@KnobblyWand

I don't give a fuck about how she comes across, to be honest. She was a child groomed by men, then abandoned by the UK government just so they'd look good in the middle of whatever scandal it was that week.

She's a British citizen, or was . They had no business scapegoating her when many other people in her position have been allowed to return.

She needs to come back and face the UK justice system, as should be her right. This whole thing is a fucking mess.

Actually I seem to remember watching a documentary in which the chief person doing the grooming online was a woman, targeting girls.

She did play a part she held an AK-47 and was a part of the women's morality police threatening women she probably kept sex slaves with her husband . She also sewed suicide vests at 15 you know this is wrong unless she has been accessed as lacking capacity.

I don’t feel for her one bit. I’m glad she can’t come back

@Badgercity

The government broke international law when they stripped her of her nationality.

It’s very pigheaded of us to refuse to deal with her and expect another country to handle her. She was born here and groomed here, our authorities failed to safeguard these teenagers from radicalisation.

That said, she comes across very badly, devoid of emotion and without remorse. Either she’s an ice cold radical or she’s completely traumatised to an almost catatonic state.

Other problems with allowing her home include the possibility she might not get. custodial sentence (the maximum being 10 years, but equally could be a fine depending on whether the judge takes her age and the fact she was groomed into account), and the amount of resources that will be required to monitor her and to keep her safe from others.

But it has been appealed in court and it was found not to be breaking international law

Unfortunately, this is a case of actions have consequences. She left to join a violent terrorist organisation that raped, killed & destroyed countless men, women & children. It seems clear that her apologies are not genuine and lack authenticity. It's just not a safe, sensible idea to reverse the revocation of her citizenship. That's the consequence.

Nobody has to judge, or come to a conclusion about grooming, or a manipulative personality, or attack her, or be happy about it, or anything else, to come to that conclusion. It is just the safest, most rational decision. It would send a terrible message to others, that there appears to be a 'well come back if you change your mind' end to the story to anyone who goes off to join ISIS or the Taliban or other violent extremists. It's a bigger conversation than just Shamima now and has to be.

It's so sad about her babies, the whole story is just a shocking waste of life. And maybe she was groomed but maybe she wasn't. Sometimes people have the kind of personality that is attracted to something like ISIS or the grim power over others it brings, and that doesn't always have to be a result of grooming (although it often is).

Thing is childhood and innocence aren't usually granted / afforded to little brown girls therefore it's very easy for many to demonise SB.

She wants to come home to England to have a fair trial and go to prison for the rest of her life if she is found guilty.

Erm - who pays for all that??
Leave her where she is.

Someone has taken that gear out to her and dressed her up for the interview.

I agree, and provided her with a scripted narrative too no less.

The safety of people who chose not to side with a terror organization come first. This woman is a threat to national security.

Does anyone really believe for a second that if isis were still in power and her husband was alive she would be bleating about coming home??

She partook in terrorism, in the murder and maiming of innocent people on a mass scale. Something is wrong on a soul level here, and "being a child" doesn't cut it.

Some things just can't be undone.

@VladmirsPoutine

Thing is childhood and innocence aren't usually granted / afforded to little brown girls therefore it's very easy for many to demonise SB.

Really? What a patronising, silly and racist statement.

@VladmirsPoutine

Thing is childhood and innocence aren't usually granted / afforded to little brown girls therefore it's very easy for many to demonise SB.

Seriously?