Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

@Pumperthepumper

Your interpretation of @peaceanddove’s posts is so far from what’s actually in the text I wonder if some peer coaching might help.

And yes, violin practice is painful - literally.

OP I'm late to this thread but wanted to say this as I've had a bit of an epiphany.

5 years ago I could have written your post. I was upset with the school but we didn't move our child. It continued to some extent for 3 years. I was never very happy about it as I felt my (bright) child should have been given extension work as I was ay my (underfunded, rural) school in the 80s.

And now, I have a child who is very, very good at persuading her peers, younger children and often adults. She understands motivation and how to encourage people to see things her way. She is able to tailor her explanation of difficult concepts to her audience. All of this are invaluable skills and much more useful than the extension work she might otherwise have done. She has the makings of a leader - I was just a swot. And she is a straight A student now in high school so it didn't hurt her academically either.

So FWIW my advice would be to explain the benefits to your child and let him get on with it.

[quote TatianaBis]@Pumperthepumper

Your interpretation of @peaceanddove’s posts is so far from what’s actually in the text I wonder if some peer coaching might help.

And yes, violin practice is painful - literally.[/quote]
Ok. But to return to the question you’re refusing to answer:

Why don’t you think Jaxxon mangling the 8 times table doesn’t contribute to maths mastery?

[quote Pumperthepumper]@peaceanddove tell him to start at base 3, it’s easier. I’m so glad you were interested by that concept though, genuinely![/quote]
No, maths and all things numerical bore me shirtless, but our credit card statement arrived today, so I need to sweeten him up and feign interest.

Bore me shitless

[quote TatianaBis]@Pumperthepumper

Your interpretation of @peaceanddove’s posts is so far from what’s actually in the text I wonder if some peer coaching might help.

And yes, violin practice is painful - literally.[/quote]
Double negative in that last one, I’ll rephrase:

Why do you think Jaxxon mangling the 8 times table doesn’t contribute to maths mastery?

Why don’t you think Jaxxon mangling the 8 times table doesn’t contribute to maths mastery?

Erm well because 4 x 8 is not 33 and 5 x 8 is not 64. Because he doesn’t care about maths he wants to gurn at his mates, and I don’t care whether he cares or not.

@TatianaBis

Why don’t you think Jaxxon mangling the 8 times table doesn’t contribute to maths mastery?

Erm well because 4 x 8 is not 33 and 5 x 8 is not 64. Because he doesn’t care about maths he wants to gurn at his mates, and I don’t care whether he cares or not.

Why does he think 4x8 is 33?

(Wasn’t refusing to answer it btw, it was just a stupid question).

@TatianaBis

(Wasn’t refusing to answer it btw, it was just a stupid question).

Ok. Why does he think 4x8 is 33?

Why does he think 4x8 is 33?

Because he’s thick, he doesn’t care, isn’t concentrating and just spouting random shit.

Next time I will pretend I don’t understand the topic so I don’t have to ‘help’ him.

@peaceanddove

Bore me shitless

I like shirtless though and will use.

I cheerfully admit that I can only do enough maths to get through life- thankfully I don't need much, and the counting in my job is all based around the metric/decimal system so I can go to my grave without understanding base 8.

It's interesting the "joy of learning" vs "means to an end" views of education. Our education system seems to be mostly the latter, with a bit of the latter masquerading as the former on the UCAS form.

As PPs have noted though, if one child is sitting refusing to write anything, stuck firmly in the "don't try and you can't fail" mode and not showing any lightbulb-joy at all; and the other child is considering pretending to be slower or stupider than he is to get out of the whole miserable exercise of bashing his head off a mute brick wall, then something has gone wrong.

@TatianaBis

Why does he think 4x8 is 33?

Because he’s thick, he doesn’t care, isn’t concentrating and just spouting random shit.

Next time I will pretend I don’t understand the topic so I don’t have to ‘help’ him.

Ah ok. We don’t tend to call people thick these days, especially not children.

If you were interested in maths, and were good at it, and ten years old instead of a jaded adult - the idea that Jaxxon thought 4x8 is 33 would be fascinating to you. You’d immediately think, how can he think that? When four piles of eight coins is 32? Or half both numbers is 2x4, which is 8, so double it again is 16, and double it again is 32. Or 4x9 is 36, so just subtract four.

You’d instantly think of ways to help him understand, and by doing it, you’d work out ways of looking at that number that you’d never previously considered, because you already know 4x8 is 32.

Ironically, Jaxxon would be brilliant at the four times table because he counts in base 8.

peaceanddovetell him to start at base 3, it’s easier. I’m so glad you were interested by that concept though, genuinely!

My dad used to count sheep (silently) in 2s. My granddad counted them (out loud) in 3s. My dad did not think that this was an interesting mathematical concept and did not care to know. He just wished his dad would shut up or stand further away when they were both trying to count the sheep.

@powershowerforanhour

peaceanddovetell him to start at base 3, it’s easier. I’m so glad you were interested by that concept though, genuinely!

My dad used to count sheep (silently) in 2s. My granddad counted them (out loud) in 3s. My dad did not think that this was an interesting mathematical concept and did not care to know. He just wished his dad would shut up or stand further away when they were both trying to count the sheep.

That’s base 10 though still.

the idea that Jaxxon thought 4x8 is 33 would befascinatingto you.

What if Jaxxon doesn't really think 4 x 8 is 33 though? What if his brain isn't working in some mysterious and interesting mathematical language and he has just spewed out a random number- ask him the next day what 4 x 8 is and he might say 17 or 45- in the way he ticks (b) for every answer in a multiple choice test.

@powershowerforanhour

peaceanddovetell him to start at base 3, it’s easier. I’m so glad you were interested by that concept though, genuinely!

My dad used to count sheep (silently) in 2s. My granddad counted them (out loud) in 3s. My dad did not think that this was an interesting mathematical concept and did not care to know. He just wished his dad would shut up or stand further away when they were both trying to count the sheep.

That was badly worded. Counting in base 3 doesn’t mean counting in threes.

We use the Hindu-Arabic system of counting in base ten, probably because we have ten fingers. If we had three fingers, we’d count in base 3. So we’d get to 10 (ie the end of the units) much faster, at 3. And we’d write 4 as 11, 5 as 12, we’d run out of units again so we’d write 6 as………….?

Yes unfortunately the hard working well behaved children are often used to regulate the behaviour of others. To their own detriment. I think it’s really common that the more able don’t make the progress that they should at primary as everything is pegged on an average level and they’re never given extension work. If there’s a child in the class who is disruptive/ disinterested etc then it shouldn’t be put onto one child to always have to work with them, but that’s what usually happens

@powershowerforanhour

the idea that Jaxxon thought 4x8 is 33 would befascinatingto you.

What if Jaxxon doesn't really think 4 x 8 is 33 though? What if his brain isn't working in some mysterious and interesting mathematical language and he has just spewed out a random number- ask him the next day what 4 x 8 is and he might say 17 or 45- in the way he ticks (b) for every answer in a multiple choice test.

That’s a different issue then. That’s a classroom management one, rather than a peer support one.

That’s base 10 though still.

Fucking annoying is what it is. Dad took to looking the sheep on his own (not a team player obvs).

@Pumperthepumper

Who’s we? I call a spade a spade.

You’d immediately think, how can he think that?

You might, I just think I’m wasting my time. I know he lives at number 33 and doesn’t know his 8 x table. There’s no point coming up with ways of explaining it to him as he’s not listening anyway.

[quote TatianaBis]@Pumperthepumper

Who’s we? I call a spade a spade.

You’d immediately think, how can he think that?

You might, I just think I’m wasting my time. I know he lives at number 33 and doesn’t know his 8 x table. There’s no point coming up with ways of explaining it to him as he’s not listening anyway.[/quote]
Again: you’re not responsible for explaining it to him. You, a ten year old maths genius, is using Jaxxon to work on your own knowledge.

You call kids thick? Is that the ‘spade a spade’ thing?

*are