Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

That’s a different issue then. That’s a classroom management one, rather than a peer support one.

Right. Penny drops?

(Perhaps not).

@TatianaBis

That’s a different issue then. That’s a classroom management one, rather than a peer support one.

Right. Penny drops?

(Perhaps not).

I don’t understand why we should write off peer support because of poor classroom management, no,

That IS the extension task

Not on. Many years ago, our son told us that he’d been “chosen” by another child in his year 1 class to go along and join him at his “special” lessons. Thereafter, he was sat next to the other child to “help” him.
This had been going on for 3 weeks before we found out.
We said no. No problem at all with the other child, knew his mum, perfectly friendly, aware of difficult family circumstances. Our son wasn’t an SEN teacher though. At that age, he was in school to learn, nothing more. Taking responsibility for another’s behaviour (their find stars had been linked!) was way beyond his pay grade.

we’d write 4 as 11, 5 as 12, we’d run out of units again so we’d write 6 as………….?

Dunno. 13 possibly.
The thing is I'm a bit like peaceanddove
Education for me was mostly a means to an end- to get the As at GCSE to get into 6th year to get the As to get into vet college, then stuff enough into my brain to be able to spew onto the page to get my pass degree so that I could get my RCVS membership so that I could legally get a job as a vet.

I did enjoy the process of learning at times, and some subjects for their own sake. English literature A level classes at my school clashed with phys/chem/bio so I did Eng Lit A level as a night class at the local tech in my lower 6th year. Not because it would add to the UCAS form. I really enjoyed Duke of Ed. Struggled with a musical instrument for several years with some vague notion of wanting to be well rounded but eventually dumped it (well before A level years) and wish I'd chucked it earlier. I did some stuff that I didn't enjoy and didn't really learn from for the UCAS form potential.

@powershowerforanhour

we’d write 4 as 11, 5 as 12, we’d run out of units again so we’d write 6 as………….?

Dunno. 13 possibly.
The thing is I'm a bit like peaceanddove
Education for me was mostly a means to an end- to get the As at GCSE to get into 6th year to get the As to get into vet college, then stuff enough into my brain to be able to spew onto the page to get my pass degree so that I could get my RCVS membership so that I could legally get a job as a vet.

I did enjoy the process of learning at times, and some subjects for their own sake. English literature A level classes at my school clashed with phys/chem/bio so I did Eng Lit A level as a night class at the local tech in my lower 6th year. Not because it would add to the UCAS form. I really enjoyed Duke of Ed. Struggled with a musical instrument for several years with some vague notion of wanting to be well rounded but eventually dumped it (well before A level years) and wish I'd chucked it earlier. I did some stuff that I didn't enjoy and didn't really learn from for the UCAS form potential.

No, not 13, because in base 3 we don’t have the symbol 3. Just like in base 10 we don’t have a symbol for 10, we show we’ve moved in to the ‘end of the units’ by starting again at the beginning. 1 (to show one ‘next column’) and 0 units. Then we write 11 to show 1 (set of ten) and 1 (unit)

So in base 3 we have three numbers: 0,1 and 2. 1 is 1. 2 is 2. We’ve run out of units! So we start again 1(set of 3) 0 (units). 3 is 10. 4 is 11, 5 is 12 and 6, we’ve run out of units! We need a new number in the 1 column.

My daughter is in Year 5 and they do this in their class too. The children who need more help get rotated around the classroom though so they're not always on the same table needing the help from particular children.

@Smartiepants79

Having to teach something to another person can actually be very helpful in improving your own understanding and clarifying your thought processes. Having to explain your thinking is a learning tool used in lots of areas. The only reason I’d have a serious problem with this is if it’s preventing my child from completing his own work or the other child is being horrible.

This is nonsense if the teaching child has good understanding already, and does well. It doesn't work in situations like this, although it can do in GCSE revision, for example. The teaching child is entitled to extend his own learning. He is not an unpaid TA.

I’m going to bed now but I just want to make the point: peer-support is a two-way process. So your kid might be ‘helping’ another kid with maths (and again, that’s not the purpose of peer support) but your kid will also be the ‘helped’ at various points in the curriculum. Languages, maybe. Art? Gym? Even if you still don’t agree that it’s worth your kid’s time, your kid will be on the receiving end of this too.

I don’t understand why we should write off peer support because of poor classroom management, no

Because class or pupil management is a key plank of teaching/support/whatever and 10 year olds don’t have the experience or training.

@TatianaBis

I don’t understand why we should write off peer support because of poor classroom management, no

Because class or pupil management is a key plank of teaching/support/whatever and 10 year olds don’t have the experience or training.

I don’t understand what you mean by this. Pupil management is a key plank of teaching, but that’s not what peer support is. Your kid isn’t expected to manage the behaviour of another kid any more than he’s expected to teach them.

But in the real world, kids are being expected to do this.

@opentherm

But in the real world, kids are being expected to do this.

Do what?

Umm I was kind of interested a little bit, but not enough to work it out. In my case any spare brain left for thinking about inessential stuff for the fun of it will be spent finding out whether a monoclonal antibody has been licensed for use in arthritic horses as it has been in dogs, and if not why not, and if so then will it be banned for competition use - probably yes and if this is the case how hard will it be to differentiate the synthetic mab from the horse's own antibodies when developing a dope test. Dull as ditchwater to some, kind of interesting to me. To each his own. One of the best things about having left school is you can pick what you want to learn about, unlike poor Jaxxon.

On another note-
Again: you’re not responsible for explaining it to him. You, a ten year old maths genius, is using Jaxxon to work on your own knowledge.

Two main reasons for peer teaching have been advanced in this thread. One is both altruistic and self interested for the "teacher" child. Teacher child learns to be kind, work for the good of another and the whole class and society in general (altruism) and also learn leadership skills etc (self interest.
The other is purely self interest- using Jaxxon as a guinea pig for consolidating own knowledge- much like practising a speech in a mirror.

If you say to teacher child: look, don't worry about the outcome, just use Jaxxon as a tool to consolidate your own knowledge. It's not your fault if he clearly hates the process, fails at everything and ends up in prison. Then that is not in conflict with objective #2 but fails to fulfil #1. A kind, conscientious teacher or leader would care about the outcome too- would want Jaxxon to enjoy some lightbulb flick moments and also succeed to the best of his (limited) ability.
If you set teacher child the Sisyphean task of helping Jaxxon, unless TC is a selfish little exam robot then you'll either break TC's heart a little bit, or petrify it.

Trying to give ‘support’ to kids under 10 - they may be listening quietly, or they may be uncooperative.

So the supporter doesn’t know how to get round the behaviour issues to deliver information in an engaging way and the supportee isn’t being communicated in the best way to help him grasp something. So he just ‘gives up’ saying ‘he doesn’t get it’ as per the OP.

This isn’t a particularly productive use of class time.

Ie - managing behaviour is a key element of imparting knowledge to young children.