Ds expected to “help” another pupil with work in class

[LostFrog]

Ds is 9 years old, just started Year 5, first year of new school (middle school system here).

He tells me that when he has finished his own work in class, he is required to help a boy who sits next to him. This happens every single lesson, and he says that the boy is reluctant to work, won’t write anything, gives up quickly and mutters all the time that he doesn’t get it, etc. From asking around, this seems to be the standard on every table in the class - there is one or two pupils who are “learning mentors” who have to teach the less able ones.

Is this a) normal, and b) reasonable? It’s not like ds volunteered for this role. If he has finished, Shouldn’t he be offered an extension task whilst the teacher or TA (there is one, I checked) help the ones who are struggling? I have emailed the teacher to ask them to clarify what’s expected, but has anyone else come across this?

@TatianaBis

Not quite sure what you’re struggling with *@Pumperthepumper*

I’m saying it’s more effective for a teacher to teach Jaxx in a group of similar ability so they can be taught at the same speed (slower than the kids who pick up mathematical concepts fast,) using strategies developed (by the teacher) to help less able kids master mathematical concepts effectively and build their confidence.

So you think it’s better for Jaxxon to learn in a group?

So worksheets in the end then?

Yes, I suppose so. Why not?

@peaceanddove

So worksheets in the end then?

Yes, I suppose so. Why not?

Because that’s rubbish teaching. Ignoring a child who’s gifted at maths and filling their time with worksheets wouldn’t advance them at all. Where’s the active learning?

I suspect in reality if your gifted maths-loving ten year old had proudly showed you her folder of completed maths worksheets at the end of the year you’d raise an eyebrow.

So you think it’s better for Jaxxon to learn in a group?

In a (small) class of children of the same ability, where the teacher can give personalised attention to each kid who needs it. If there’s a need for further one on one tuition that should be available too.

Because that’s rubbish teaching. Ignoring a child who’s gifted at maths and filling their time with worksheets wouldn’t advance them at all. Where’s the active learning?

I agree worksheets for the able are crap and a sign that the teaching method is not working. But I’d much rather do worksheets and focus on my own learning than waste time on Jaxx when I’m not getting paid.

@TatianaBis

So you think it’s better for Jaxxon to learn in a group?

In a (small) class of children of the same ability, where the teacher can give personalised attention to each kid who needs it. If there’s a need for further one on one tuition that should be available too.

I’m not trying to trip you up, I’m interested in what you think is a better situation for Jaxxon: a smaller class of mixed abilities or a smaller class of similar abilities.

I didn’t think you were, I’ve already told you - similar abilities.

I suspect in reality if your gifted maths-loving ten year old had proudly showed you her folder of completed maths worksheets at the end of the year you’d raise an eyebrow

If all she had ever done in her maths lessons were endless work sheets, then yes I'd think that was rubbish teaching. But luckily that didn't happen and she happily participated in the general maths lesson alongside the other children, and would often go on to do an extension work sheet. So, overall a nice mix.

@TatianaBis

I didn’t think you were, I’ve already told you - similar abilities.

Ok. You’re wrong then. It’s better for him to be in a smaller class of mixed abilities.

@peaceanddove

I suspect in reality if your gifted maths-loving ten year old had proudly showed you her folder of completed maths worksheets at the end of the year you’d raise an eyebrow

If all she had ever done in her maths lessons were endless work sheets, then yes I'd think that was rubbish teaching. But luckily that didn't happen and she happily participated in the general maths lesson alongside the other children, and would often go on to do an extension work sheet. So, overall a nice mix.

What did she do when she wasn’t doing extension worksheets?

For my own child, who is like me, exceptionally bright and has ASD, this practice was causing her an inordinate amount of stress. It is now in her formal accommodations that she must be placed with similar abilities for group work. That doesn’t mean she never helps a fellow student. We have been told she has a knack for finding a way to explain concepts, but it’s not allowed to be assigned to her.

Ok. You’re wrong then. It’s better for him to be in a smaller class of mixed abilities.

That’s simply your opinion. I think you’re wrong.

@Driftingblue

For my own child, who is like me, exceptionally bright and has ASD, this practice was causing her an inordinate amount of stress. It is now in her formal accommodations that she must be placed with similar abilities for group work. That doesn’t mean she never helps a fellow student. We have been told she has a knack for finding a way to explain concepts, but it’s not allowed to be assigned to her.

What does she do within those groups?

How’s it working the OP’s DS and his Jaxx?

@TatianaBis

Ok. You’re wrong then. It’s better for him to be in a smaller class of mixed abilities.

That’s simply your opinion. I think you’re wrong.

It’s not my opinion though. It’s the result of a lot of evidence that it works. Decades of research. It’s not an opinion, it’s a fact.

@TatianaBis

How’s it working the OP’s DS and his Jaxx?

I’m not in that classroom but I suspect something has gone wrong in the management of that paring. Again, a classroom management issue rather than a peer support one.

For group work or is whatever group work is happening. It could be peer to peer learning. It could be a science lab. Once they were making a short movie about an historical event.

There is equal long term evidence that setting works. That is also a fact.

@TatianaBis

There is equal long term evidence that setting works. That is also a fact.

Absolutely. But that’s not the same as mixed ability groups.

@Pumperthepumper

Are mixed ability groups good for all children though or do they just lead to better outcomes for children who are of middle / low ability?

"Steve Higgins, a professor at Durham University’s School of Education and lead author of the toolkit, said the updated analysis “shows us that the impact of attainment grouping is dependent on the type of grouping used”.

He added: “Based on the evidence we have, setting or streaming pupils in different classes by prior attainment appears, on average, to have had a small negative effect. In contrast, grouping pupils by attainment within classes had a positive overall impact in the studies we reviewed.”

This was published in 2018 and shows that the research supporting mixed groups is clearly not unanimous.

I’m not in that classroom but I suspect something has gone wrong in the management of that paring.

It’s more what’s gone wrong with with pairing 9 year olds as a concept.

They are many posters contributing that the ways it went wrong for them - so it going wrong is fairly standard.

[quote iloveruby]@Pumperthepumper

Are mixed ability groups good for all children though or do they just lead to better outcomes for children who are of middle / low ability?[/quote]
All children.

@iloveruby

"Steve Higgins, a professor at Durham University’s School of Education and lead author of the toolkit, said the updated analysis “shows us that the impact of attainment grouping is dependent on the type of grouping used”.

He added: “Based on the evidence we have, setting or streaming pupils in different classes by prior attainment appears, on average, to have had a small negative effect. In contrast, grouping pupils by attainment within classes had a positive overall impact in the studies we reviewed.”

This was published in 2018 and shows that the research supporting mixed groups is clearly not unanimous.

Could you please link to this study?

But that’s not the same as mixed ability groups.

Of course it’s not the same as mixed ability groups - it’s similar ability groups.