Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

It’s awful and should be banned. People can pretend it’s benign for the baby but of course taking a baby away from its mother and giving it to another woman is a terrible thing to do. Unfortunately it’s all about the women and not about the baby. Unbelievably selfish. And of course people who have used surrogacy won’t have a bad word to say about it, what a surprise!

People surrender children for adoption all the time

Not in the UK. The vast majority of adoptions here are enforced by a judge at the request of social services.

I thought it was fine until I realised how much damage a 'normal' pregnancy does to your body! I don't think surrogates who haven't had children before can possibly give informed consent. I think it should remain altruistic and the surrogate should have had a child first.

I agree with you and think it’s a ridiculous and selfish way to “get” a child, when there are so many less absurd methods. Essentially growing a baby to buy and sell for the consumer’s own gain.

To assume “poor woman” is wrong. Surrogates I’ve heard speaking of their experiences have said it gave them great satisfaction. They were women with complete families of their own, they wanted to help someone else to have the same.

Surrogacy is a human rights violation. That doesn't mean there aren't positive stories within surrogacy, but if you stop focusing on these stories and have a look at what's actually going on in the name of surrogacy, you'll find it's an exploitative business based on the sale of babies and explotation of women's bodies.

If Mumsnet was around 300 years ago, the human rights issue of the day would have been slavery.

Can you imagine mumsnet if it had existed then? Lots of stories of how happy people's slaves were, how Mumsnetter saved them from a terrible life by bringing them into their nice houses and how slavery was really a good thing in countries with proper regulations.

This is what's going on, on this thread.

Surrogacy is a human rights issue but people here are falling for the PR. I started from that position too.

But if you look into it, you find women treated despicably, even in countries like the US. (The laws protect largely the buyers, not the mother). And women treatde no better than slaves in baby factories in less developed countries.

And men buying huge numbers of babies, collecting humans. Some with partners, doing it for status symbol reasons, others for bizarre reasons like one single guy who's trying to collect 1,000 children, brought up by nannies, he says, to rig elections locally as he thinks they'll all vote for him. (He's obviously never heard of teenage rebellion).

And, men buying babies to abuse.

We can't stop this while surrogagcy exists.

Please, listen to the audio of this talk (bottom of the page) to understand what it is you're supporting.

filia.org.uk/latest-news/2019/11/8/surrogacy-a-human-rights-violation-filia-conference-2019

YANBU.

Anyone who thinks surrogacy is "well regulated" in developed countries either has rose tinted spectacles or no clue how exploitative it can be.

Clue: you don't see wealthier better off women engaging in commercial surrogacy.

In a world where women had equality with men and there were not big economic and other divides between women you might just be able to do this safely. When we live in that world I'll reconsider my views on commercial surrogacy.

So if I had carried a baby for my sister, this would have been a bad and unethical thing to do?

I’ve been pregnant twice before. I am an educated person. There is no financial pressure or reward involved.

Stay out of my uterus indeed?

[quote backtoschoolagainagain]If Mumsnet was around 300 years ago, the human rights issue of the day would have been slavery.

Can you imagine mumsnet if it had existed then? Lots of stories of how happy people's slaves were, how Mumsnetter saved them from a terrible life by bringing them into their nice houses and how slavery was really a good thing in countries with proper regulations.

This is what's going on, on this thread.

Surrogacy is a human rights issue but people here are falling for the PR. I started from that position too.

But if you look into it, you find women treated despicably, even in countries like the US. (The laws protect largely the buyers, not the mother). And women treatde no better than slaves in baby factories in less developed countries.

And men buying huge numbers of babies, collecting humans. Some with partners, doing it for status symbol reasons, others for bizarre reasons like one single guy who's trying to collect 1,000 children, brought up by nannies, he says, to rig elections locally as he thinks they'll all vote for him. (He's obviously never heard of teenage rebellion).

And, men buying babies to abuse.

We can't stop this while surrogagcy exists.

Please, listen to the audio of this talk (bottom of the page) to understand what it is you're supporting.

filia.org.uk/latest-news/2019/11/8/surrogacy-a-human-rights-violation-filia-conference-2019[/quote]
Brilliant post

@DontStepOnTheMomeRathz

So if I had carried a baby for my sister, this would have been a bad and unethical thing to do?

I’ve been pregnant twice before. I am an educated person. There is no financial pressure or reward involved.

Stay out of my uterus indeed?

Surrogacy between family members is different to stranger/commercial surrogacy in some ways but still ethically fraught. The potential for coercion is immense.

It’s an extremely emotive issue

One side is that a family is blessed and a baby is placed/given to a loving family

The other side is that women are exploited and babies can suffer from attachment issues.

That it’s so easy to exploit women and create a baby trade make me feel very uncomfortable

What is more important that a family (who is likely to be wealthy in majority of cases) is completed/a couple or women has the child they/she desires so much or we protect vulnerable woman and babies

This has always gone on to some extent women having babies for others to raise, their choices so often driven by having such little choice in their life

I’m not comfortable with surrogacy either. I’d much rather see a system where women could, if they choose, go ahead with pregnancies when they don’t want to keep their babies and allow them to go up for adoption, without stigma attached.

I'm not either.

I completely agree with you OP.

And what a stupid comparison to same sex marriage. Those getting married are adults and consenting to marriage

A baby can not consent to anything and many poor women will be exploited for the wants of a wealthy couple/woman

I think your comments are quite harsh and cold to be honest.

Surrogacy isn't plain black and white. You don't just offer someone an inviting amount of money to carry a child and that's that.

If I wanted to have another baby, I would have to use a surrogate due to past cancer, chemo, C sections, and surgery trauma. If I carried a baby now it would probably kill me. I very nearly had to have a medical abortion a couple of months ago as I fell pregnant but ended up miscarrying. I'm not on any contraception as the chemo has left me Infertile but it happened. It was bitter sweet but I knew I couldn't carry.

My sister, a loving, caring, healthy, BEAUTIFUL soul of a woman has offered to be my surrogate. It's an Avenue we're thinking about.

Your comment about a baby being taken away from their birth mother isn't nice at all.

Yes, there's corruptions and problems when it comes to women and their bodies. There is with a lot of things. But I think your view is quite blasé. Not everybody is out to find a surrogate who will accept a truck load of money to help their family and put them self through emotion and physical turmoil to do so. Yes it happens. But not in most cases.

[quote backtoschoolagainagain]If Mumsnet was around 300 years ago, the human rights issue of the day would have been slavery.

Can you imagine mumsnet if it had existed then? Lots of stories of how happy people's slaves were, how Mumsnetter saved them from a terrible life by bringing them into their nice houses and how slavery was really a good thing in countries with proper regulations.

This is what's going on, on this thread.

Surrogacy is a human rights issue but people here are falling for the PR. I started from that position too.

But if you look into it, you find women treated despicably, even in countries like the US. (The laws protect largely the buyers, not the mother). And women treatde no better than slaves in baby factories in less developed countries.

And men buying huge numbers of babies, collecting humans. Some with partners, doing it for status symbol reasons, others for bizarre reasons like one single guy who's trying to collect 1,000 children, brought up by nannies, he says, to rig elections locally as he thinks they'll all vote for him. (He's obviously never heard of teenage rebellion).

And, men buying babies to abuse.

We can't stop this while surrogagcy exists.

Please, listen to the audio of this talk (bottom of the page) to understand what it is you're supporting.

filia.org.uk/latest-news/2019/11/8/surrogacy-a-human-rights-violation-filia-conference-2019[/quote]
Fantastic, I agree completely.

Your comment about a baby being taken away from their birth mother isn't nice at all.

I'm sorry that you have had to endure cancer and the treatment has left you infertile but removing the baby from its birth mother is what happens. I don't see how anyone can deny that

It is the renting of a woman's womb by wealthy people which makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. Children should not be traded. I would have considered doing it for my sister which is different, but the business of it is shocking and I'm surprised it has so much support.

There are other options - adoption and fostering - but people want babies who look like them, not older children who actually need help.

Some opinions we have should really be kept to yourself.

I think I could be a surrogate if it wasn't my egg but I agree to carry and give birth to a baby then give it away straight away would be very difficult. The baby hears your voice first in the womb so I do wonder what effect it has on them. However, if they are being looked after by people who truly love them and care for them I think it would be ok. You are right and brave to raise it.

[quote backtoschoolagainagain]If Mumsnet was around 300 years ago, the human rights issue of the day would have been slavery.

Can you imagine mumsnet if it had existed then? Lots of stories of how happy people's slaves were, how Mumsnetter saved them from a terrible life by bringing them into their nice houses and how slavery was really a good thing in countries with proper regulations.

This is what's going on, on this thread.

Surrogacy is a human rights issue but people here are falling for the PR. I started from that position too.

But if you look into it, you find women treated despicably, even in countries like the US. (The laws protect largely the buyers, not the mother). And women treatde no better than slaves in baby factories in less developed countries.

And men buying huge numbers of babies, collecting humans. Some with partners, doing it for status symbol reasons, others for bizarre reasons like one single guy who's trying to collect 1,000 children, brought up by nannies, he says, to rig elections locally as he thinks they'll all vote for him. (He's obviously never heard of teenage rebellion).

And, men buying babies to abuse.

We can't stop this while surrogagcy exists.

Please, listen to the audio of this talk (bottom of the page) to understand what it is you're supporting.

filia.org.uk/latest-news/2019/11/8/surrogacy-a-human-rights-violation-filia-conference-2019[/quote]
Great post. It is an unfathomable barbarism and the only arguments in support amount to emotiional blackmail

I have personal experience of infertility. It’s heartbreaking when someone wants a child and can’t have one - but that desire doesn’t and shouldn’t trump all other ethical considerations.

[quote backtoschoolagainagain]If Mumsnet was around 300 years ago, the human rights issue of the day would have been slavery.

Can you imagine mumsnet if it had existed then? Lots of stories of how happy people's slaves were, how Mumsnetter saved them from a terrible life by bringing them into their nice houses and how slavery was really a good thing in countries with proper regulations.

This is what's going on, on this thread.

Surrogacy is a human rights issue but people here are falling for the PR. I started from that position too.

But if you look into it, you find women treated despicably, even in countries like the US. (The laws protect largely the buyers, not the mother). And women treatde no better than slaves in baby factories in less developed countries.

And men buying huge numbers of babies, collecting humans. Some with partners, doing it for status symbol reasons, others for bizarre reasons like one single guy who's trying to collect 1,000 children, brought up by nannies, he says, to rig elections locally as he thinks they'll all vote for him. (He's obviously never heard of teenage rebellion).

And, men buying babies to abuse.

We can't stop this while surrogagcy exists.

Please, listen to the audio of this talk (bottom of the page) to understand what it is you're supporting.

filia.org.uk/latest-news/2019/11/8/surrogacy-a-human-rights-violation-filia-conference-2019[/quote]
Absolutely.

@HermioneKipper you are right to be disturbed by surrogacy- it’s a form of people trafficking. The baby is created to be traded, removed from its mother at birth - which is considered animal cruelty when it happens to a puppy.

Women involved in surrogacy face higher risk pregnancies, often suffer birth injuries, and some tragically die. Leaving their own children without a mother.

There are also many documented cases of ‘commissioning parents’ allegedly desperate for a baby - but only a perfect one - so refusing to pay for or accept a child born with a disability.

Being childless but not by choice is of course devastating - but trampling on the rights of babies and abusing women’s bodies is not the solution.

And there’s a special place in hell for the men who choose surrogacy because they don’t have a womb but want a sliver of their own genetic material in baby form to boost their own ego.

Has no-one heard of adoption?

Surrogacy is slavery and should be banned.

A PP mentioned why are we okay with having pets if we aren’t okay with surrogacy….

You can’t take a puppy away from its mum until 8 weeks, so why is it okay to take a baby from its birth mother almost instantly?

It is a feminist issue, if you’d have posted this under the feminist topic you’d have got different responses.

BBC 3 did a programme about surrogacy recently. There were many uncomfortable moments, including decisions being made about interventions to labour and birth by people other than the woman giving birth.