Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

I feel when it is done out of love for example, your sister is your surrogate, then it is ok and lovely.

when it is done for commercial reasons I.e. a gay man wants a baby so he effectively buys one, then it is not ok and shouldn't be allowed.

There seems to be a lot of wealthy gay men having twins lately, and it definitely doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure they will give the babies a good life but human life should not be bought.

@Sleepyquest

I feel when it is done out of love for example, your sister is your surrogate, then it is ok and lovely.

when it is done for commercial reasons I.e. a gay man wants a baby so he effectively buys one, then it is not ok and shouldn't be allowed.

There seems to be a lot of wealthy gay men having twins lately, and it definitely doesn't sit right with me. I'm sure they will give the babies a good life but human life should not be bought.

Wealthy women and heterosexual couples buy babies too. Don’t make this all about gay men.

It’s a tricky and very emotive topic. I disagree with it ethically as I don’t believe you should be able to buy another woman’s body. Also pregnancy and childbirth were incredibly difficult for me and it is a really big risk for the surrogate to take.

However i have been fortunate enough to have children so I can look at it from a position of privilege. I’m not sure what I could do it I couldn’t have had any children. I would like another child but can’t due to previous birth complications and definitely wouldn’t consider surrogacy for this.

I was also separated from my child at birth for a prolonged period due to prematurity and I don’t feel that it has caused any attachment problems (yet!) but who knows long term I suppose.

@Myusernameisnotmyusernameno

I think I could be a surrogate if it wasn't my egg but I agree to carry and give birth to a baby then give it away straight away would be very difficult. The baby hears your voice first in the womb so I do wonder what effect it has on them. However, if they are being looked after by people who truly love them and care for them I think it would be ok. You are right and brave to raise it.

You think you could be a surrogate? I’m glad you have noticed the op is brave and right to raise this issue.

Did you know

• that using someone else’s egg makes it higher risk for you of pregnancy complications?

- that there is a lot of evidence for children removed from their mothers at birth suffering long term health problems?

• that surrogacy does not require parental assessment of suitably unlike adoption or fostering, so there is no way of knowing if a baby would be truly loved?

Yanbu. It's gross.

Surrogacy between family members is different to stranger/commercial surrogacy in some ways but still ethically fraught. The potential for coercion is immense.

Indeed.

Sorry @SorryAuntLydia I'm afraid you are incorrect. Surrogacy does involve parental assessment. We were assessed by social services & had to be assessed by an independent counsellor (as did the surrogate) as well as further assessments by the ivf unit including going to their ethics committee before we could go ahead.

A much more rigorous process than anyone TTC goes through

Did you know
- that using someone else’s egg makes it higher risk for you of pregnancy complications? No I didn't know that. But I can certainly see why a couple would prefer to have their biological embryo carried by another woman rather than using the womans own eggs.
- that there is a lot of evidence for children removed from their mothers at birth suffering long term health problems? Where is that evidence, 1000s of babies were removed from teenage / single birth mums, in the past.
- that surrogacy does not require parental assessment of suitably unlike adoption or fostering, so there is no way of knowing if a baby would be truly loved? Millions of babies are conceived every year without any sort of parental assessment. The surrogate is more than capable of saying No I don't want to work for a certain couple or individual.

I have a huge problem with paid surrogacy - it's very wrong that rich people are paying poor women to rent their actual uterus, with all the risks that go hand-in-hand with pregnancy (many, many women are seriously damaged by childbirth, whether that be incontinence, sexual disfunction, pelvic injuries, diastatis recti, hernia, tearing...etc.).

Some of the more serious risks are more likely to occur when a woman gestates a child that is not hers biologically.

There was a case in the US relatively recently where the birth mother died giving birth, leaving her own children motherless. The baby survived and went to its adoptive parents.

Altruistic surrogacy, I'm on the fence. I'd do it for my sister or sister in law if she needed it, even though last pregnancy I had HG. I'd not do it for anyone else though. I think there's the potential for family members to be pressured into it, and it's not highly regulated like, e.g. living kidney donation.

We need more, not fewer, regulations to protect women from exploitation.

On another note - I think the regulations ought to include whether prospective parents would be suitable. In the US there have been cases of paedophiles using surrogates

God I hate threads like this.

@Lockdownbear

Did you know - that using someone else’s egg makes it higher risk for you of pregnancy complications? No I didn't know that. But I can certainly see why a couple would prefer to have their biological embryo carried by another woman rather than using the womans own eggs. - that there is a lot of evidence for children removed from their mothers at birth suffering long term health problems? Where is that evidence, 1000s of babies were removed from teenage / single birth mums, in the past. - that surrogacy does not require parental assessment of suitably unlike adoption or fostering, so there is no way of knowing if a baby would be truly loved? Millions of babies are conceived every year without any sort of parental assessment. The surrogate is more than capable of saying No I don't want to work for a certain couple or individual.

But I can certainly see why a couple would prefer to have their biological embryo carried by another woman rather than using the womans own eggs. oh well if that’s what they’d prefer, ok then

Where is that evidence, 1000s of babies were removed from teenage / single birth mums, in the past.
You answered your own question. Do your own research, google is your friend here. Loads and loads and loads of data on how this affects brain development, long term mental health etc

The surrogate is more than capable of saying No I don't want to work for a certain couple or individual.
Go tell that to the women working in the baby factories in eg India and Bulgaria.

There was a case in the US relatively recently where the birth mother died giving birth, leaving her own children motherless. The baby survived and went to its adoptive parents

Surrogacy is relatively new. Perhaps as these incidents become more widely known, women will think twice before becoming surrogates.

I didn't know there is more risk if the egg isn't your own, for instance.

@Lemonsandlemonade

God I hate threads like this.

Why?

Here is a really interesting podcast I listened to recently. It is 3 womens health physios, one was an altruistic surrogate.

It's a interesting listen, particularly the way that covid helped. I don't think this woman was at all consciously coerced (lots of family upset that the sister wasn't a mother though), but I also don't think the experience sounds like it was good for her.

The infant is barely mentioned, other than much wanted etc.

Interestingly, the woman who was the surrogate got pregnant with her own child 12 weeks after delivering her sister's baby.

anchor.fm/atyourcervix/episodes/Ep-12-S1-My-Surrogacy-Journey-with-Katie-Richardson-e13pj8o

All surrogacy should be illegal. And it should be illegal for a woman to buy a baby in another country, so no travelling abroad to pick up your baby from and coming back with a baby hoping that it will be a British citizen.

And no, “just because you haven’t been through fertility issues” isn’t a reason to say women can’t hold that opinion. It’s really unfortunate that people have fertility issues and can’t have children. But sometimes that is nature. It doesn’t seem fair, but that doesn’t mean that they have the right to exploit whom so ever or pay whatever price is required for a baby. Sometimes just because something can be done, doesn’t mean that it should.

And yes, the same goes for same sex couples. If you’re in a relationship with someone who is the same sex as you then one of the consequences of that is that you won’t be able to have children. Adoption is obviously different, but if adoption isn’t for you then that doesn’t entitle you to go down whatever other route you need to buy a baby.

I disagree with egg/sperm donation as well as it happens.

It’s interesting that we never hear from the children born of these arrangements. We never have people come on to these threads saying “I was the product of surrogacy and I’m so grateful to the woman who carried me so that my parents could have me.” In fact there are countless forums devoted to the children born as a result of donation who have struggled with their lack of identity all their lives. It is in fact why the law has been changed to enable the children of donation to trace their biological parents when they turn 18.

But as ever it’s always just about the woman’s wish for a baby, with no consideration for that actual baby.

And anyone who thinks that women aren’t paid to be surrogates in the UK is naive. No, officially they can’t be paid, but they can claim expenses of up to £15000. That amounts to payment where I’m standing. No pregnancy costs £15k.

@HermioneKipper
All I will say is put yourself in the shoes of someone that can't have kids naturally and it's the only root they can take to have the family they dream off 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

[quote Babyghirl]@HermioneKipper
All I will say is put yourself in the shoes of someone that can't have kids naturally and it's the only root they can take to have the family they dream off 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️[/quote]
I am in those shoes and I would not have considered surrogacy.

@IamanUltracrepidarian coz they never end well. They become anti donor threads.

To me, it’s not that far away from porn or sex work.

Just because someone “chooses” it, and is financially rewarded for it, doesn’t mean it’s right.

And that’s without considering the child in this situation.

If you wouldn’t donate a kidney to a stranger, why would you give then a baby? Stranger organ donation is very rare.

I understand the childless issue. I can understand truly altruistic surrogacy, for a close relative or friend, for example. But there should be no money involved.

Yanbu OP. Hardly the same as a sperm bank, unless posters are equating wanking into a cup with pregnancy and childbirth

Surrogacy is a human rights violation

I think if you took the issue to court, you might find the exact opposite is true, that it would be a human rights violation to prevent it.

Just because someone “chooses” it, and is financially rewarded for it, doesn’t mean it’s right.

And your opinion of what's right is more important than that of the person choosing to do it?

To create a baby to order, with the excited internet of removing it from the only person it knows is abhorrent on every level. Genetics don't matter an iota. That baby is made from the woman that carries it. It knows the sound of her breathing, her heart and her voice. When it's born it knows her smell. She is that babies absolute world.

Until the buyers whisk it away at a few minutes old. "You can't buy a baby in the U.K.!" Yeah you can, you pay costs of up to £15-18k to cover the housing, food, care, travel of the "gestator". That is biting a baby. Even an altruistic surrogacy is abhorrent. It's about validating the want to be parents and the surrogate.... at no point is it about the baby and the babies rights.

People that think this is ok. Haven't you seen the stories of people given up for adoption an birth that have gone on to have life long mental health and attachment issues? Studies exist that say removing a baby from the mother at birth can cause horrific issues for that child later in life.

So. What's more important?

The parents right to be a parent at any cost? Or the babies right to its mother ?

@HermioneKipper

I’m honestly not trying to start a bunfight. I haven’t thought about it too much before until I got to thinking after I listened to that podcast which I generally quite like.

I guess it really made me think because I’ve also had twins and the pregnancy was absolutely horrendous and I was extremely ill. I also lost a lot of blood during the birth and they were worried. I also have some ongoing issues from the pregnancy. I felt terrible for the woman who may have dealt with similar but then would have to immediately give up the babies following the birth

The fact you started this thread when you were able to conceive, so have no idea what those who can't must feel, is hideous. The fact you then went on to say how awful your birth was, is beyond hideous. Those who can't conceive would probably kill to be able to experience what you did. There will be posters here who have been a surrogate, or had children via a surrogate. Your post is nasty, insensitive, and cruel. You can have your own opinion, but why do you need to broadcast it when could so clearly hurt others? If you don't agree with it, don't do it. It really is that simple. Making this thread is really spiteful.