Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

@spicedappledonuts

Surrogacy isn't legal in quite a lot of countries, it isn't a universally accepted activity.

Thank goodness for small mercies. However it happens and it happens here in the UK. There was a TV programme about it not that long ago.

@OhHolyJesus

So I can weigh up the risks associated with a legal act of being a surrogate and make an informed decision and then become a surrogate if I want to

What would be the process of coming to an informed decision before being implanted/self-inseminating?

Pretty simple really. Do I want to be a surrogate? What are my comfort zones on being a surrogate? (Ie, insemimation/implantation). Do I want to do it for this person/couple? What effect could it have on my health? What effect could it have on my family? Arrive at conclusion/decision 🤷🏼‍♀️ My sister is unlikely able to carry a baby, I would carry a baby for her without a second thought. I would not use my own eggs so would have to be implemented embryo.

My sister is unlikely able to carry a baby, I would carry a baby for her without a second thought.

Without a second thought? Really?

You don’t think it would be a good idea to at least consider the problems that could occur? Have a plan?

Things like you dying in childbirth? Or being disabled by it?

The baby having problems, from incompatibility with life to serious additional needs?

Your sister having some life changing event meaning she couldn’t care for the child?

Thesr outcomes are rare, but the implications for you, your sister, your children, the baby are all very significant.

Of course they should be thought about.

@TheKeatingFive

My sister is unlikely able to carry a baby, I would carry a baby for her without a second thought.

Without a second thought? Really?

You don’t think it would be a good idea to at least consider the problems that could occur? Have a plan?

Things like you dying in childbirth? Or being disabled by it?

The baby having problems, from incompatibility with life to serious additional needs?

Your sister having some life changing event meaning she couldn’t care for the child?

Thesr outcomes are rare, but the implications for you, your sister, your children, the baby are all very significant.

Of course they should be thought about.

🙃🙃 Sorry, didn't realise I needed to list every thought or discussion on MN. You haven't listed anything unique to be considered and agreed, just the standard in any surrogacy agreement 🤷🏼‍♀️ my decision stands... I'd be a surrogate for my sister 🤷🏼‍♀️

my decision stands... I'd be a surrogate for my sister

I’m not challenging that.

I’m just very surprised at the flippancy of your language ‘without a second thought’ given the many potentially serious consequences of your decision.

But hiring someone as a “gestational carrier” then deprives a child of that part of their identity

As does two lesbian women using an anonymous sperm donor

In Australia you can’t be an anonymous sperm donor, for this very reason. Your details can be made available to your child so that, if they want to, they can contact you once they turn 18.

Do I want to do it for this person/couple?

Would you want that couple to be friends or family? Could you do it for strangers? What if they already had a child and wanted another? What if they had 10 but wanted an eleventh? What if they had busy jobs and planned on buying in childcare to essentially raise the child and the baby Evan going into childcare at 5 weeks old? What if they had religious beliefs or family values that didn't tally with yours? What if they did but they it changed, as people do? What if they moved abroad and you never saw them or the child you gave birth to, not even a card at Christmas? Whay if they promised lifelong friendship but dropped you in a matter of weeks after the birth? What if you had medical issues during the pregnancy but they appeared unconcerned? What if they didn't want to pay for life insurance but you thought they should, as you would be the one taking the risks? What if you had young children and a risky pregnancy with twins meant your care of them was compromised and they felt they couldn't have fun with their mummy as she was always throwing up or was too tired to play? What if your children were worried about you or were hurt and upset that the baby in mummy's tummy wasn't their sibling after all and they weren't bringing a new baby home as they understood happens with their friends who's mums are pregnant?

Would you research the medical risks, the drugs involved for it not being an embryo made with your eggs? Would you read studies on such pregnancies and read legal cases of surrogate mothers who changed their minds or read about the parental order process and how it works? Would you speak to family lawyers and learn what your parental rights and responsibilities were? Maybe you would read personal accounts of the husbands of the women who do this and what it feels like to raise your children after she has died?

What if you felt that you had made a mistake and actually you did want the child you grew abs have birth to to be yours and raise the child as you had grown to love it despite all you told yourself, all you had told to you by people who appeared to be the experts, guiding you along? What if after all that it turned out that you weren't a surrogate mother but a mother and after agreeing not to change your mind you simply changed your mind?

I haven't counted but that is more than two.

@nolongersurprised

But hiring someone as a “gestational carrier” then deprives a child of that part of their identity

As does two lesbian women using an anonymous sperm donor

In Australia you can’t be an anonymous sperm donor, for this very reason. Your details can be made available to your child so that, if they want to, they can contact you once they turn 18.

Same as in the U.K.

Why do people who are pro surrogacy think it's illegal in most of Europe?

Here is a map.
This is not a universally accepted practice.

I'm not convinced that Russia and the USA are great models to be trying to follow.

But America is so progressive...

... Oh wait no.

YANBU

While a child born from donor eggs, sperm, embryos have a right to know the name of their donor when they turn 18. You can't exactly force the donor to meet them or get to know them.
Exactly the same as adoption the birth parents may or may not want to know, or may only want to meet as a one off. Which can be very hurting for the person.

I think it is dreadful that young people, eg students, are targeted as potential donors of eggs and sperm. So many are hard up and would do it for the money, without thinking of the implications. It's a horrible concept. I haven't heard of surrogates though - and hope I never do.

I'm surprised any woman would want to carry and birth a baby for Jeff Lewis now

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10003313/Jeff-Lewis-reveals-planning-welcome-child-matching-new-surrogate.html

The woman who gave birth to their daughter (they have since split, the daughter is 4) first heard about her vagina being filmed when the scene was played back to her on a tv show. She sued the tv company.

"If I was a surrogate, and I had known there was going to be an audience, I probably would have waxed. And that was the shocking part for Gage: I don't think Gage had ever seen a vagina, let alone one that big."

She didn't know or consent to being filmed, in fact her wish was expressly not to be filmed. Her request was ignored. Even if she did agree to it, is that what you would say about the mother of your child as she is in the middle of giving birth?

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6233089/Flipping-star-Jeff-Lewis-hit-legal-battle-blow-doctor-delivered-baby-backs-surrogate.html

@Plumtree391

I think it is dreadful that young people, eg students, are targeted as potential donors of eggs and sperm. So many are hard up and would do it for the money, without thinking of the implications. It's a horrible concept. I haven't heard of surrogates though - and hope I never do.

I agree, but this is what people who go to clinics in Eastern Europe and the states where things are less well regulated, for donor egg ivf, are buying into.

I don’t agree with egg sharing either - the practice whereby women donate their eggs in return for cheaper IVF. This is allowed in the UK. They may find themselves in a situation where another woman has become pregnant with their eggs and they haven’t.

I'm against surrogacy and thinking about it, I'm also against sperm/egg donation. Whilst infertility is horrible for individuals and couples, ethically, I think these interventions are wrong.

@OhHolyJesus

I'm surprised any woman would want to carry and birth a baby for Jeff Lewis now

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10003313/Jeff-Lewis-reveals-planning-welcome-child-matching-new-surrogate.html

The woman who gave birth to their daughter (they have since split, the daughter is 4) first heard about her vagina being filmed when the scene was played back to her on a tv show. She sued the tv company.

"If I was a surrogate, and I had known there was going to be an audience, I probably would have waxed. And that was the shocking part for Gage: I don't think Gage had ever seen a vagina, let alone one that big."

She didn't know or consent to being filmed, in fact her wish was expressly not to be filmed. Her request was ignored. Even if she did agree to it, is that what you would say about the mother of your child as she is in the middle of giving birth?

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-6233089/Flipping-star-Jeff-Lewis-hit-legal-battle-blow-doctor-delivered-baby-backs-surrogate.html

What a vile man.

What a nasty pair. Poor woman she must feel so violated.
Filming births is a very personal thing.
I have photos just after my baby's birth that I'd I will let people see but nobody not even DH has copies off.

This will go down like a lead balloon I am sure but my beautiful little boy was made via sperm donation so feel I have to stick up for couples who use donor sperm.

I realise this is a thread about surrogacy but seen a fair few comments on sperm donation.

Firstly infertility is more than just horrible it’s sole destroying. Never underestimate the impact infertility has on someone’s well being and mental health.

Secondly I am only talking about me and my DH but the decision to use a donor was the hardest we have ever made. We had to make sure it was the right decision.

We are fully aware of the implications of and committed to my boy knowing about the donor. Makes me so sad to contemplate the fact that people will judge him and us for having him.

All registered donors from UK must have counselling before donating to explore the implications.

The maximum that the donor is payed is £35 a donation for expenses.

The donor can donate up to ten times.

I am only talking about my circumstances but the donor provided the most lovely pen portrait which lead us to believe the donor fully understood what he was doing.

Why am I writing this I don’t fully know but I am so grateful to the donor.

There's quite a difference with sperm donation. It does not exploit men the way egg donation and surrogacy exploit women. Masturbating into a cup does not risk your life, your health or your fertility.

Egg donation is a health risk and advertising grooms girls to be kind and targets young women who have never given birth. Surrogacy is a great health risk to the mother. All have risks of emotional harm to the parent, but the risks to women are thousandfold more. As this is a feminist post, most of us are here because we are appalled at how women are exploited for their reproductive capabilities.

@Delphinium20 as I said there have been a fair few comments about sperm donation on here.

@Delphinium20
Thankyou for being open. As much as I'm anti I can understand why you have gone for sperm donation. At least your DC is biologically related to you. I imagine most people will assume he's your husbands bio child any way.

A lot of my feelings stem from a friend who was adopted but felt he lacked roots as he was at family gathering their was no 'you take after grandad' type comments which were given to cousins etc.

Which is much less of an issue when child has a bio parent. Just the same as I'm not anti surrogate when it's the couples biological embryo.

Much of this stuff is a very throught provoking process.
It's certainly not right to be encouraging young women to donate eggs due to the drugs and process involved.

@Lockdownbear think that was meant for me. People do assume he is his biologically and will say things like oh he has his eyes etc.

We have thought long and hard about how we are will ensure our little boy knows who he is etc. We also agree that we would fully support him when he is older finding out about donor.

I just hate all the straight up anti donor stuff coz for me personally I know what a decision it was and the time it took to make that decision.