Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

It's bad enough that they manipulate 18-year-old young women to donate their eggs (and in my country, girls as young as 15 are targeted for advertising for egg donation), but to expect an 18-year-old girl be a surrogate? That makes my blood boil. Thanks to Posie for covering this topic.

@Hamsteronrollerblades I'm sorry you went through that and I'm glad society has changed that young single mums are no longer forced to give away their babies.

I'd never seen the parallels to surrogacy before.

I certainly don't think it's right for young women who haven't completed their own family to be surrogates.

I'm really uncomfortable about the idea of young women being targeted for egg donation. Egg retrieval is the most undignified thing ever, and I say that as someone who had been through smear tests, childbirth and IUI. It's really not something a young girl should ever be put through for a few quid. Not to mention the hormone treatments to develop the eggs for retrieval.

No that should be internationally outlawed. And that's before you think about the impact on the babies imagine growing up to be told you bio mum was exploited at the age of 15. FFS!

Another atrocity in Ukraine is that the babies of failed surrogacy , where the baby was the "wrong" sex, colour, had disabilities etc or the people who "ordered it " didn't show up , end up in orphanages. Where like other developing nations there are already 1000s .
I would like to hear the opinion of any one who has used these "clinics" and how they think it is ok .

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

Nastiest post I’ve ever, ever seen on MN

No,it's not nasty, it's straight to the point. If it upsets you you need to ask yourself why it's hitting a nerve. I speak as some one with experience of adoption and 'not having the family I originally hoped for.'

I agree. It’s blunt but not nasty. And I say that as someone who has been through infertility and never had a child.

Thanks lockdownbear and arabellascott.

For those people who disagree with surrogacy, how do you feel about kidney donation? this comment sums up why the tabloids love MumsNet on slow news days.

I'll bite on the kidney donation. Actually my thoughts are similar.

Should only be done with in the UK. And the donor should be over 40 at least, no young people being talked into giving Granny a kidney. Definitely no international trade in kidneys.

Laws need to be in place to protect donors or people will end up being exploited.

Well a kidney won't grow up and then have issue with it's identity and start searching for its biological owner for starters, and there may be a few other reasons why its different (and can also be highly problematic in its own right)...

... But do crack on with the ridiculous straw man arguments.

@Lockdownbear

I'll bite on the kidney donation. Actually my thoughts are similar.

Should only be done with in the UK. And the donor should be over 40 at least, no young people being talked into giving Granny a kidney. Definitely no international trade in kidneys.

Laws need to be in place to protect donors or people will end up being exploited.

Why would anyone living voluntarily donate a kidney to a random person? I'd suggest anyone who wants to do that needs serious psychological help. Oh and you can bet your bottom dollar, people most likely to do that will be women. #bekind

Giving a kidney is a bit different as there's a medical safeguarding process in place. As you have two kidneys you can actually have excess capacity, and it is preferable to take kidneys from those with a high or excess capacity (functioning at 90% or higher, right up to 120% capacity). There's a case by case decision-making process for lower than that and a cut-off point where people are not allowed to donate as it's not in their best interests.

I don't know why posters are humouring the kidney analogy. It's this kind dehumanising bullshit that led to the narrative that women can be reduced to incubators.

@FourTeaFallOut

I don't know why posters are humouring the kidney analogy. It's this kind dehumanising bullshit that led to the narrative that women can be reduced to incubators.

Cos obviously some people think you can compare a kidney to a child and a woman and all the rights they have.

Protect kidney rights!

The Daily Mail have covered the same story.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9998317/Steps-Ian-H-Watkins-reveals-used-surrogacy-team-Elton-John.html

He spilt with his partner when the twin boys were very young. It's not clear if they had twins as a result of each of them fertilising an embryo and putting both of them in the same women's body, or if it occurred naturally. Based on the fact it is an American agency I suspect the former. It also wasn't the first woman they had do this as the article refers to the "first surrogate", how many women went before the woman who had the twin boys? How many failed attempts and miscarriages did these women go through and why are they not being asked how they feel or how they are?

Ian claims that the adoption teams helping were homophobic, odd then that he didn't challenge this at the time then as that would be discrimination but because of this...

"It's you know there's egg donors I know more about women's menstrual cycles than women it's crazy."

...I'll take it as another wild claim.

I'd actually like to know what Giovanna Fletcher thinks of it, she has several children, would she be a surrogate mother and give up a baby or does she recognise the mother/baby bond?

Then don't you do it. But perhaps be a little less judgy about people that do

@OhHolyJesus

The Daily Mail have covered the same story.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9998317/Steps-Ian-H-Watkins-reveals-used-surrogacy-team-Elton-John.html

He spilt with his partner when the twin boys were very young. It's not clear if they had twins as a result of each of them fertilising an embryo and putting both of them in the same women's body, or if it occurred naturally. Based on the fact it is an American agency I suspect the former. It also wasn't the first woman they had do this as the article refers to the "first surrogate", how many women went before the woman who had the twin boys? How many failed attempts and miscarriages did these women go through and why are they not being asked how they feel or how they are?

Ian claims that the adoption teams helping were homophobic, odd then that he didn't challenge this at the time then as that would be discrimination but because of this...

"It's you know there's egg donors I know more about women's menstrual cycles than women it's crazy."

...I'll take it as another wild claim.

I'd actually like to know what Giovanna Fletcher thinks of it, she has several children, would she be a surrogate mother and give up a baby or does she recognise the mother/baby bond?

Oh god yes the bit where he says he knows more about women’s menstrual cycles than women. 🙄🙄🙄 FFS. What an idiot

I also got quite irritated with Giovanna for pandering to him. Especially the bit where he was moaning about how expensive it was and how he wanted to get the babies out of hospital ASAP. And away from their mother. The only person they knew in the world. Not a passing comment about the surrogate who’s just given birth to twins. Entitled, arrogant arsehole

@Witchcraftandhokum

Then don't you do it. But perhaps be a little less judgy about people that do

I’ll be as judgy as I like about people who are exploiting women for their own gain and ripping newborn babies from their mothers arms

@Witchcraftandhokum

Then don't you do it. But perhaps be a little less judgy about people that do

'judgy'?

JFC. You think nobody should 'judge' when babies or a disadvantaged woman is suffering, or exploited?

Have you ever considered the concept of morality, at all?

But perhaps be a little less judgy about people that do

Lol no, I'll be as judgy I want about this repulsive practice.

ArabellaScott, I agree with you. Quite honestly I wish surrogacy was illegal!

(She means 'judgemental'; 'judgey' is a horrible, Mumsnet abbreviaton.)

@Witchcraftandhokum

Then don't you do it. But perhaps be a little less judgy about people that do

No, that's not how you build ethical principles. I'll be as judgy as I like about the baby trade.

Why would anyone living voluntarily donate a kidney to a random person? I'd suggest anyone who wants to do that needs serious psychological help. Oh and you can bet your bottom dollar, people most likely to do that will be women. #bekind

I don't think I mentioned random strangers however there needs to be laws to protect young people being forced / talked into donating to older relatives.
I can understand a father donating to his son, and a sister to sister but I'd think grand son to grandparents is a bit fucked up.
But you can bet your bottom dollar that any 'donation' to a stranger is some sort of blackmarket dealing.

There is a girl in my DC’s year at school who has 2 dads. When asked by the other children about her mother she says she doesn’t know who she is, but lives in .

She is very loved it seems sad to me that, not only does she not have a mother, she has no memories or recollections of her mother. If your mother has died, you still remember her, or others do and their stories become part of your history. If your mother is too unwell or abusive/neglectful to look after you this is also part of your identity, you may resent or dislike her but you know who she is. If you are a gay man and you and your husband decide to share parenting with a female friend, then, irrespective of the living arrangements, your child has a mother you can tell them about, even if they aren’t in their life at all.

But hiring someone as a “gestational carrier” then deprives a child of that part of their identity.

@nolongersurprised that may very well be part of why I don't agree with egg/sperm/Embryo donation.
It is depriving children of knowing who they take after, who looks like who and who's has similar manorisms, my youngest was a tiny baby and managed to pull a look - the same look that my Dad would give you.

Although it's been pointed out that carrying another womans embryo is more dangerous for the surrogate I at least think its understandable and explainable to the child.
Mummy wasn't able to carry you but you were made from daddy and me and put into (auntie, granny, surrogate) to grow.

I don't know how you explain to a child they were made from a random egg.

Yes, some people seek to minimise genetic biology but DC not brought up by will have their own thoughts and feelings about that.

@RedToothBrush

Well a kidney won't grow up and then have issue with it's identity and start searching for its biological owner for starters, and there may be a few other reasons why its different (and can also be highly problematic in its own right)...

... But do crack on with the ridiculous straw man arguments.

Indeed.

How embarrassing for that poster to make such a ridiculous comparison