Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

I think it’s really unfair to suggest that because someone who wants to use a surrogate but doesn’t want to adopt must mean they just want a designer baby / accessory. They are separate issues.

Totally agree with the ethics surrounding surrogacy but plenty of fertile couples do not adopt and want their own biological babies for the same reasons babygirl doesn’t want to either. Adoption is not reserved for those who can’t have children.

I understand why people are disagreeing with her posts on surrogacy but some of the attacks against why she wants her own biological baby are downright nasty.

I can totally see why people wouldn't want the complications of adopting children who have been abused, neglected and have attachment issues.
The story of the boy adopted at 15mths and at 18 kicked out the army, sound all too familiar. He's not the first adopted child I've heard like that. Who appear to have had a stable upbringing but have all sorts of issues. But then other adoptions go really well.

SS are now trying placing newborns who are removed at birth into Foster to Adopt placements, which puts the risk onto the Foster parents that they could have the child for a time and then it be returned to the birth mother.

DH wouldn't consider adoption but honestly don't think it would have been for me either.

I can see surrogacy needs better controls to protect women. And I really don't think it should be done internationally, the child esp if they have the surrogates DNA should have the right to meet them, it's much easier to regulate it if both the parents and surrogate are in the same country.

I don’t agree with rich couples going to poorer countries. All parties should be in the same country so they abide by the same laws and contracts etc. I think it’s ok when a surrogate is not genetically related to the baby she carries and she fully consents, but it does make me uneasy that a surrogate may have to give up a baby created from her own egg.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor l think babyghirl is referring to the adoption agencies who want one of the couple to give up work. She like me probably doesn’t wish to give up work, l wouldn’t give up work for my biological, adoptive or surrogate child. I would drop some hours, alongside my partner doing the same but that’s it

@islandbeach

I think it’s really unfair to suggest that because someone who wants to use a surrogate but doesn’t want to adopt must mean they just want a designer baby / accessory. They are separate issues.

Totally agree with the ethics surrounding surrogacy but plenty of fertile couples do not adopt and want their own biological babies for the same reasons babygirl doesn’t want to either. Adoption is not reserved for those who can’t have children.

I understand why people are disagreeing with her posts on surrogacy but some of the attacks against why she wants her own biological baby are downright nasty.

Yes thats true.

However fertile couples don't use a third party - with all the associated issues - to do that.

Indeed one of the specific problems popping up with surrogacy is precisely the rejection of the goods if they aren't perfect.

If fertile couples have a problem, its much more difficult for them to reject the child - in part because they have had this biology and physical connection throughout birth and have already gone through that bonding process.

Fertile couples know that if things go wrong they are the only ones who can be responsible. Those going through surrogacy have some one to blame and someone to pass the responsibility back to. Its much much easier to dump a faulty surrogate baby because of the disconnect of not giving birth.

This in itself is a reason why surrogacy should be banned. Especially when you hear this language of expectation and demand.

I do think that a lot of people who go for surrogacy would very much fail to get through an adoption process for many of the same reasons.

I can totally see why someone wouldn’t want to adopt, it most definitely isn’t for everyone.

But not wanting to adopt because you want to be pregnant and give birth to a biological child is different to not wanting to adopt but still wanting someone else to give birth to your child.

In both cases you are removing a child from its mother. It doesn’t matter that the child is yours by biology, the person who carries and gives birth to that child is its mother. And the problem is that people seem to have a rose-tinted view of what having a baby is like. They believe that because the child will be theirs there won’t be any of the issues there when actually, removing a baby from its birth parent does create attachment issues, and as very few children of surrogacy have ever spoken out there is no evidence that they lead happy fulfilled lives with no consideration that there is something missing in their lives, or that they don’t have feelings about how they feel about being traded because of a woman’s wish to have a baby.

It’s actually a fact that women who undergo fertility treatments such as IVF etc have a much higher instance of post natal depression, and this is mainly linked to the expectations they build up re motherhood and having this baby after waiting for so long which are almost never the same when the baby is actually here.

Anyone having a baby, be that naturally or through surrogacy, needs to consider the possibility of that baby having disabilities, possibly severe disabilities which cannot be picked up at birth, and how they will deal with those.

In so many cases you don’t pick up your perfect baby and all live happily ever after. And sleepless nights are a wonderful thing to look forward to when you haven’t actually been awake for 23 hours solid for the past 5 days with no idea as to when things will change.

Having been born to a family where both of my parents couldn't have given less of a shit about me and I ended up in the care system, I would kill to be that baby, mother or no mother. I wouldn't give a shit, as long as I was loved.

[quote Babyghirl]@El8888
Totally agree with your comment. It's not on the child because it's 100% not their fault, but it's just not for me either.
And I read the post you are on about to and it was like people with infertility issues should just clean up after the shit show parents. I work full time and just could not take on that responsibility.[/quote]
Goodness me, you do realise that a surrogate baby could have problems? You know, because there is evidence , removing a baby from it's mother can cause attachment issues that can be life long. The baby might be born with disabilities.

What then? I have my own children who both have disabilities. One of them has attachment issues because I was seriously ill post birth which I described upthread. I used to work full time but not anymore I'm a full time carer now.

I can understand not wanting to take on an adopted child but having a baby is always a risk. Having a baby through surrogacy creates a known risk which you are completely ignoring because it's inconvenient to your world view.

Who wants to be cleaner for fickle and dysfunctional who have children all over the shop then they are taken by Social services or give them up?!

Wow

IVF children are also at higher risk of developmental difficulties than non IVF children
People need to be aware of that

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor
Im not saying if I manage to have a child it will be perfect but it will be alot easier to manage, I will have raised that child for which it will be alot easier to know how to deal with them. My nephew who is 14 has adhd and autism and I know how to handle him because I have known him from birth and he's comfortable with me would be a lot harder if it rolls where revirsed and I did not know him.

Fertile couples know that if things go wrong they are the only ones who can be responsible. Those going through surrogacy have some one to blame and someone to pass the responsibility back to. Its much much easier to dump a faulty surrogate baby because of the disconnect of not giving birth.

It is the ethics surrounding this which I find deeply disturbing. Having disabled children is HARD. They are my biological children and I love them with every fibre of my being but every day is bloody hard, and not so hard for me as it is for them.

What happens if you discover the surrogate baby has a genetic condition at scan? Who gets the final say, presumably the surrogate mother? I'm not sure on the legalities surrounding surrogacy but could the surrogate parents reject the baby if a disability is obvious at birth?

@CloseYourEyesAndSee

IVF children are also at higher risk of developmental difficulties than non IVF children People need to be aware of that

Where's the evidence for that?

@TheCloudBotherer

I agree absolutely with the previous poster who said that adoption is for the benefit of the child, surrogacy is for the benefit of the adult.

I was adopted as a baby. My birth mother willingly put me up for adoption which was quite unusual for time I was born. I have had a happy childhood with my adopted family, have been successful at school and in my career. Obviously, however, my early life is not ideal, it's making the best of a bad situation. It hurts immensely to know that my mother- the very first person who was supposed to love me and look after me- gave me up. She had a child before me, went on to have more children after me, all of whom she kept and, as far as I can see, looked after reasonably well.

The hurt and rejection I feel and had to come to grips with as a child might not be wholly rational- logically, I know that what my mother did is no reflection on me- but they are there. When I opted to meet my birth mother, what made the whole thing worse was seeing the apparent indifference she felt to the entire situation. I hadn't been taken from her. She- someone who has been able to bring up multiple other children- gave me up for no obvious reason.

One thing that could have made this all worse is learning that not only was I given away voluntarily, but that I was conceived FOR THAT PURPOSE. Oh, and also finding out that my adoptive parents- the people who have provided me with a loving and happy childhood- were apparently the sort of people who thought that causing that sort of situation was a perfectly acceptable thing to do, just because they wanted a baby.

I'm sorry for people who can't conceive but this isn't the answer to it.

Your experience is very similar to surrogacy, I would think. My first thought was thank goodness private adoptions are now illegal in the UK but, on reflection, a child born via surrogacy is potentially going to have similar emotions except it's perfectly legal.

I do think so called altruistic surrogacy just opens another layer of complications.

[quote EL8888]@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor l think babyghirl is referring to the adoption agencies who want one of the couple to give up work. She like me probably doesn’t wish to give up work, l wouldn’t give up work for my biological, adoptive or surrogate child. I would drop some hours, alongside my partner doing the same but that’s it[/quote]
Ah right, thank you.

"Risk of neurodevelopmental disorders in children born from different ART treatments: a systematic review and meta-analysis | Journal of Neurodevelopmental Disorders | Full Text" jneurodevdisorders.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s11689-020-09347-w

I didn't know private adoption was illegal on the UK, how the hell can surrogacy be legal ?

@islandbeach
Thankyou 💐

What happens if you discover the surrogate baby has a genetic condition at scan? Who gets the final say, presumably the surrogate mother? I'm not sure on the legalities surrounding surrogacy but could the surrogate parents reject the baby if a disability is obvious at birth?

I'd assume that stuff is covered within the legal paperwork, making up the contract that both parties entered into.
I'd assume if the baby has issues evident at the scan, the parents are entitled to request & pay for abortion, if the mother says no then it will be her responsibility.
Defect at birth should lie with the parents but it wouldn't surprise me if the contracts are very unfairly written and the parents will only take 'normally developed' babies.

I'm definitely seeing that international surrogacy is exploiting women in poor countries.
Properly managed within the UK with protection for the surrogate I don't have so much of an issue with.

I'd assume if the baby has issues evident at the scan, the parents are entitled to request & pay for abortion, if the mother says no then it will be her responsibility.

Really? Like returning a faulty product back to the factory? Is this how we buy a life - under the sale of goods act?

I mean, why not commission two surrogates and just pick the healthiest and whichever will be the least hassle foetus at 20 weeks?

@FourTeaFallOut

I'd assume if the baby has issues evident at the scan, the parents are entitled to request & pay for abortion, if the mother says no then it will be her responsibility.

Really? Like returning a faulty product back to the factory? Is this how we buy a life - under the sale of goods act?

It's absolutely disgusting.

So unethical. If the baby has genetic conditions and is biologically the child of the surrogate parents and the parents say they want the surrogate to have an abortion because they don't want a faulty baby then the surrogate must either abort a baby that she is carrying or take responsibility for a disabled child. That's no choice. It's disgusting.

I don't care what country this happens in, there are no protections that can be made that makes this morally right.

If a mother was carrying her own child and was told it wasn't developing properly they'd make a decision. I know at least three couples who've made very difficult decisions after scans. Why would it be any different with a surrogate. The whole point of having scans is to check development not for the Boy/Girl reveal party entertainment.

I agree OP, noone should be able to purchase a baby. The needs and interests of the baby should come first, whatever the difficulties of people who cannot have their own children. I completely disagree with the view that says if you don't like it don't do it, but let others get on with it - that is not giving any consideration to the impact on the baby.

I know a number of people who have grown up to find out their parents are not their real parents, for all sorts of different reasons. In every case it has caused massive issues for the child.

If you can’t have children because of infertility then there are the options of adoption or fostering. There should never be the adoption of surrogacy, ‘altruistic’ or paid. Some of the comments on here which are pro surrogacy, show just how little the baby actually matters, it’s literally about the adult’s wants only. Quite horrifying.