Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

@Lockdownbear

If a mother was carrying her own child and was told it wasn't developing properly they'd make a decision. I know at least three couples who've made very difficult decisions after scans. Why would it be any different with a surrogate. The whole point of having scans is to check development not for the Boy/Girl reveal party entertainment.

erm, because it's not your body carrying the baby.

I'd assume if the baby has issues evident at the scan, the parents are entitled to request & pay for abortion, if the mother says no then it will be her responsibility.

Fuck me, is this for real?

That's no choice. It's disgusting.

Exactly.

It should all be banned, it’s just revolting to treat women and babies as tradable commodities and no fucks given to their physical and emotional needs. People should be ashamed of themselves.

@Lockdownbear

If a mother was carrying her own child and was told it wasn't developing properly they'd make a decision. I know at least three couples who've made very difficult decisions after scans. Why would it be any different with a surrogate. The whole point of having scans is to check development not for the Boy/Girl reveal party entertainment.

Well, these are the decisions you can make when your foetus is growing in your own womb, not a commissioned womb belonging to a woman who has been boxed in by your decisions to endure the trauma of a late term abortion or the struggle of raising a child they never expected who lives with additional challenges.

Hence the parents get the first say and if the surrogate says no then its her choice.

Two of the babies I'm thinking of weren't compatible with life, the third was advised to abort but went against the advice. Baby had big operation days after birth.

I’m against surrogacy because I’ve been pregnant, I’ve felt the babies growing in my belly, pushed them out and breastfed them, I know what the pregnancy hormones are like and I simply cannot imagine handing a newborn baby to someone else and not being the one caring for them. I cannot comprehend how any woman can do it, I know it would destroy me, even thinking about it makes me tear up.

I can’t imagine how it would feel to be the child, knowing that the person who carried you for 9 months and was supposed to care for you just handed you over to someone else, that you were just a paycheque or a “good deed” for them, that you were a commodity.

On the other hand I know the feeling of longing for a baby and if surrogacy is the only option to have your own biological baby I can see how it would be very difficult to dismiss it as an option, even with the ethical concerns and I’m not sure it’s fair to expect people who are infertile to make that decision. That’s why I think it should be illegal, so it’s not even an option.

[quote Babyghirl]@El8888
Totally agree with your comment. It's not on the child because it's 100% not their fault, but it's just not for me either.
And I read the post you are on about to and it was like people with infertility issues should just clean up after the shit show parents. I work full time and just could not take on that responsibility.[/quote]
Here you go again with your wish list
You are utterly entitled and not living in the real world.

What happens if your surrogate baby is brain damaged at birth through lack of oxygen or there is a problem that was not diagnosed in utero ?

Are you going to reject the baby? What’s your plan B?!

Actually makes me feel ill reading some of your posts

Hence the parents get the first say and if the surrogate says no then its her choice.

Yeah, her choice it like it or lump it.

Hence the parents get the first say and if the surrogate says no then its her choice.

‘Choice’ you say.

To either go through an abortion that might be hugely traumatic for her or to raise a child with very complex needs.

You don’t see anything morally problematic with putting women in a position where they have this wonderful ‘choice’? While the people merrily trading babies simply walk away, presumable in pursuit of a better commodity.

I really have no words.

Actually good point, what does happen if there's an issue during the birth, do they just get to walk away as it wasn't in their plan?

@Lockdownbear

If a mother was carrying her own child and was told it wasn't developing properly they'd make a decision. I know at least three couples who've made very difficult decisions after scans. Why would it be any different with a surrogate. The whole point of having scans is to check development not for the Boy/Girl reveal party entertainment.

Carrying a baby should never be a provision of goods or a service.

The way you’ve described the contractual negotiations of dealing with “defects” makes
My blood run cold.

It is also beyond disrespectful to the couples or indeed single women who are carrying a loved and longed for child and have to confront these tragedies.

If being so compelled to have a child reduces your moral compass to this sort of state then there is something deeply deeply wrong

@DebbieHarrysCheekbones
If problems where to arise on the birth I would still love that baby because as I say I would be bringing up from birth so will know him/her inside out what they like don't like so will be easier to manage easier than a child I don't know.

[quote Babyghirl]@DebbieHarrysCheekbones
If problems where to arise on the birth I would still love that baby because as I say I would be bringing up from birth so will know him/her inside out what they like don't like so will be easier to manage easier than a child I don't know.[/quote]
Yes of course dear

That’s what happened with a really unpleasant case involving an Australian couple. The overseas surrogate gave birth to twins. Basically, the couple took one twin and left the baby with disabilities to be brought up by the surrogate, in extreme poverty - because that was why she had become a surrogate.

I used to think that surrogacy was a sweet and generous thing until reading about situations like this, and the treatment of women who are commercial surrogates. It’s a disgrace.

That was in reply to MrsPellegrino

@Gremlinsateit

That’s what happened with a really unpleasant case involving an Australian couple. The overseas surrogate gave birth to twins. Basically, the couple took one twin and left the baby with disabilities to be brought up by the surrogate, in extreme poverty - because that was why she had become a surrogate.

I used to think that surrogacy was a sweet and generous thing until reading about situations like this, and the treatment of women who are commercial surrogates. It’s a disgrace.

It is.

@lifeturnsonadime

Fertile couples know that if things go wrong they are the only ones who can be responsible. Those going through surrogacy have some one to blame and someone to pass the responsibility back to. Its much much easier to dump a faulty surrogate baby because of the disconnect of not giving birth.

It is the ethics surrounding this which I find deeply disturbing. Having disabled children is HARD. They are my biological children and I love them with every fibre of my being but every day is bloody hard, and not so hard for me as it is for them.

What happens if you discover the surrogate baby has a genetic condition at scan? Who gets the final say, presumably the surrogate mother? I'm not sure on the legalities surrounding surrogacy but could the surrogate parents reject the baby if a disability is obvious at birth?

They can and they do A horrible couple had two babies this way in Thailand and left the twin who had Down syndrome there with his birth mother who was left with the responsibility of raising him

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

Actually good point, what does happen if there's an issue during the birth, do they just get to walk away as it wasn't in their plan?

I assume that's covered in 'contracts' in places such as the US but of course they can abandon babies there just as easily as anywhere In developing countries it is far far too easy for commissioning parents to reject an 'imperfect' child and nobody will be able to make them take responsibility legally or financially

A horrible couple had two babies this way in Thailand and left the twin who had Down syndrome there with his birth mother who was left with the responsibility of raising him

I think you're referring to David and Wendy Farnell.

They actually wanted Pattaramon, the mother, to abort him but she refused and she said she would raise him.

David was a convicted paedophile

...and Pipah, Gammy's sister, had weekly lessons so she should learn that she cannot be alone with her father. He died last year so this is no longer required. They never went back for Gammy and public donations helped as Pattaramon wasn't anticipating becoming a parent and caring and feeding a child with special needs.

Thankfully Gammy (and twin Pipah obviously) is now 6 and is 'thriving'.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8528141/Baby-Gammys-family-learn-father-David-Farnells-death-Bunbury-Western-Australia.html

I hope Pipah and Gammy find each other one day as they were delegated at birth and may feel, as they grow up, that someone is missing. I hope Pipah knows the truth, however painful it is, genealogical bewilderment could be worse.

Bridget is another case of abandonment due to being born with disabilities.

The text accompany the video says a lot. There is also this:

www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-20/ukraines-commercial-surrogacy-industry-leaves-disaster/11417388

*I think you're referring to David and Wendy Farnell.

They actually wanted Pattaramon, the mother, to abort him but she refused and she said she would raise him.

David was a convicted paedophile

...and Pipah, Gammy's sister, had weekly lessons so she should learn that she cannot be alone with her father.*

Holy shit. Bought by a paedophile, yeah, nothing to see here...

@FourTeaFallOut

*I think you're referring to David and Wendy Farnell.

They actually wanted Pattaramon, the mother, to abort him but she refused and she said she would raise him.

David was a convicted paedophile

...and Pipah, Gammy's sister, had weekly lessons so she should learn that she cannot be alone with her father.*

Holy shit. Bought by a paedophile, yeah, nothing to see here...

Fuck I had forgotten that part of the story

I assume that's covered in 'contracts' in places such as the US but of course they can abandon babies there just as easily as anywhere

I think it's worse than that

twitter.com/jenniferlahl/status/1417527064895254531?s=21

I read one situation of a commissioning couple who had a change of plans (they were moving abroad for a job opportunity) so wanted to cancel their 'order' but the surrogate mother was past the point of legal abortion in her state. To paraphrase her wording "it's not like cancelling a restaurant reservation is it?". No, no it isn't.

YANBU OP. In my opinion surrogacy often takes advantage of vulnerable women and turns children into commodities - deeply unethical.

Holy shit. Bought by a paedophile, yeah, nothing to see here..

Yes and tragically he's not the only one. Someone mentioned their neighbours who got a baby from Russia earlier...

"Prosecutors say Truong and Newton bought the boy from a woman in a "foreign" country, believed to be Russia, and then transported him around the world to engage in sex with more than half a dozen other men, all before his sixth birthday"

www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/10/queensland-paedophile-peter-truong-sentenced-for-30-years-jail