Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

@TheGirlCat I think it is hard to comment as it’s a complex issue. I would find it hard to comment on the Northern Ireland situation, as that to isn’t cut and dried or black and white

Let’s look at the definition of smug as you seem vague on it. It is “ having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements”. Nope, that’s not me. Let’s do the same for narcissistic “ selfishness, involving a sense of entitlement, a lack of empathy, and a need for admiration, as characterizing a personality type”. Bad example for be as l don’t feel l lack empathy, my original post was pushing trying to think about things from someone else’s perspective and saying surrogacy is a complex topic

@TheGirlCat
No I'm not 15 adoption is not just for me I want sleepless nights and everything that comes with the baby stages, I don't want to adopt a 7 maybe 8 year old just because I don't want to start of at that age just the way surrogacy is not for you adoption is not for me.

just the way surrogacy is not for you adoption is not for me.

No it's not the same.

I want sleepless nights and everything that comes with the baby stages

Well I'm sorry but you might not be able to have that. I'm very sorry, it's shit, but that doesn't mean you have the automatic right to use another woman's body to birth a baby for you.

@HeartsAndClubs
See unless you have walked in the shoes of infertility you will never know how a lady feels, my post abot adoption and surrogacy was saying that mare both is the same of that a child through surrogacy is born to be wanted, I know a girl who had 7 kids who where all taking off her and not at the just born stage either so they developed a bond with her up until some of them where 3 or 4 a baby born through surrogacy will get a bond with who ever feeds them keeps them warm and loves them from birth up.

a child through surrogacy is born to be wanted

You don't need to have that child. You want to have that child. You're perfectly happy to put another woman through pregnancy and childbirth, and perfectly happy to remove a newborn baby from its mother, because you want a child.

Selfish in the extreme. Infertility is no excuse. Some people can't have children. It's very sad, it's absolutely shit, but it doesn't mean surrogacy is justified.

@Babyghirl you sound painfully naive and at best wilfully ignorant about what having a baby does to a woman or how that baby reacts to its mother.

This is not meant to be cruel but if you’ve never been pregnant and given birth to a baby you have no idea of the toll it takes, both physically and emotionally. And if you did, you’d never ask another woman to take that risk for you.

My body has been changed and damaged irrevocably from having children. And during the birth of my twins, I lost so much blood they were very worried about me. To ask another woman to do that and potentially risk her life is wrong, just so that you can get your baby.

And to rip a newborn from its mothers arms, the only thing that they know and will give them comfort is, in my opinion, abhorrent.

I’m sorry you can’t conceive naturally but your wish to have children shouldn’t come at the expense of another woman’s body.

And leaving altruistic surrogacy aside, the whole industry is absolutely ripe for exploitation and I don’t think it should be allowed.

It's not really about your feelings. People have all sorts of deep sorrow about how life has treated them. That shouldn't make a bit of difference about how we come to a reasonable decision about the ethics of surrogacy both for the surrogate mother and the child who has been commissioned.

Very well said @HeartsAndClubs

@HermioneKipper
And if you have never not been able to give birth you will know that feeling either.

I know babyghirl isn’t getting a pleasant ride here. But some of what she says l agree with, zero chance of me doing adoption but surrogacy isn’t for me either. On a thread on here a bit ago, me and others were reflecting why people think people with fertility issues are the adoption and foster clean up crew. Who wants to be cleaner for fickle and dysfunctional who have children all over the shop then they are taken by Social services or give them up?! I’m not saying to be contentious, it’s just the way l feel. I have already jumped through hoops, attended enough stupid meetings and completed enough forms for fertility treatment. I can’t do it again for someone who won’t be related to me, will most likely have lots of trauma and issues. Which quite frankly l don’t wish to unpick or resolve. Plus l will have to be grateful at every turn and talk about how blessed l am . I feel for children in those situations but they aren’t my problem. Yeah, l cringe when people know we have fertility issues and paint adoption as the panacea for all of our ills. Like l said to my fiancé feel free to do it but l won’t get involved, why would l take maternity / adoption leave for some random?

I totally understand that most people don't have the qualities or inclination required to adopt a child. I don't think ordering a baby should be a back up option for infertile people or anyone.

Yes @EL8888 I think you’re right in saying you’re not a candidate for adoption

No one is saying that people must adopt instead of surrogacy. It’s not an either or. I personally couldn’t adopt I don’t think, but I also wouldn’t ever consider surrogacy.

Accepting that adoption isn’t for you doesn’t mean you have to or even should consider the abhorrent practice of baby trafficking instead. The two questions are entirely separate.

Feelings don't trump rights....

I want sleepless nights and everything that comes with the baby stages

Well DS was regularly doing 3 or 4 wake ups a night at age 4. He still wakes us age 7. So I can reassure you that if you wish to have the sleepless nights you can very much have an 8 month old and share in that pain. Personally, I think anyone who wants that in order to say they've done all the 'mother stuff' just like anyone else is missing the point. Its screaming 'look I've got the badge of how hard it is to be a mother ' in a showy off way like a fashion accessory rather than the reality of birth trauma and long term birth complications from carrying a child which is very much taboo and unspoken (and are born by the birth mother and long since forgotten by the surrogate mother the moment she gets her prize).

Am against commercial surrogacy and have concerns about ‘altruistic’ surrogacy too.

In the UK we already have something close to commercial surrogacy.

@MayorGoodwaysChicken l have always had enough self awareness to say it’s not for me.

But yes adoption and surrogacy are both quite different

Posters shouldn’t make assumptions about other posters’ circumstances, eg that posters who express negative opinions about surrogacy haven’t experienced fertility problems.

@MayorGoodwaysChicken

Yes *@EL8888* I think you’re right in saying you’re not a candidate for adoption

No one is saying that people must adopt instead of surrogacy. It’s not an either or. I personally couldn’t adopt I don’t think, but I also wouldn’t ever consider surrogacy.

Accepting that adoption isn’t for you doesn’t mean you have to or even should consider the abhorrent practice of baby trafficking instead. The two questions are entirely separate.

This.

Adoption should not be compared in any way with surrogacy. They are entirely different things.

And it doesn't change the fact that surrogacy is still baby trafficking however you frame it.

@HeartsAndClubs
Well no i have not given birth but have lost 4 babies.

@Dozer

Posters shouldn’t make assumptions about other posters’ circumstances, eg that posters who express negative opinions about surrogacy haven’t experienced fertility problems.

Quite

@El8888
Totally agree with your comment. It's not on the child because it's 100% not their fault, but it's just not for me either.
And I read the post you are on about to and it was like people with infertility issues should just clean up after the shit show parents. I work full time and just could not take on that responsibility.

[quote Babyghirl]@El8888
Totally agree with your comment. It's not on the child because it's 100% not their fault, but it's just not for me either.
And I read the post you are on about to and it was like people with infertility issues should just clean up after the shit show parents. I work full time and just could not take on that responsibility.[/quote]
No one is asking you to. We’re just asking you to think of someone other than yourself and to not engage in baby trafficking instead.

[quote Babyghirl]@El8888
Totally agree with your comment. It's not on the child because it's 100% not their fault, but it's just not for me either.
And I read the post you are on about to and it was like people with infertility issues should just clean up after the shit show parents. I work full time and just could not take on that responsibility.[/quote]
How will you cope when you have a baby /child that needs specific help/attention? What makes you think having a baby from birth will be any different?

** IF not when