Surrogacy makes me very uncomfortable

[HermioneKipper]

I was listening to Giovanna Fletcher’s podcast with H from Steps and hearing them talk about him using a surrogate for his twins made me feel very uncomfortable.

It’s essentially renting a woman’s body to buy a baby.

I understand the woman must’ve consented but she was paid and it doesn’t take into account the risk she was putting her body through. Pregnancy and childbirth is a huge strain on a woman’s body and she risks serious injury giving birth that she’ll have for life.

Even more so as she had twins which is even more dangerous.

And the babies taken away from their birth mother immediately. Who knows what harm it does to them.

It feels akin to the black market of buying and selling organs.

I know I have children so perhaps don’t have the right to comment but it doesn’t sit right with me.

People have every right to start a thread about a topical issue, whether or not people are offended or upset by it. There is a "hide thread" function.

@lynntheyresexpeople Oh do go away and hassle people on another thread. You’ve made your point. Although I disagree.

I am allowed to raise valid ethical concerns about the safety of women and children on a parenting forum.

You’re clearly far too precious if you can’t read anything without throwing your toys out of the pram

[quote lynntheyresexpeople]@HermioneKipper who are YOU to create a thread for your own enjoyment, when you are more than aware it will hurt so many people.

You still managed what so many cannot. Be grateful for that, and stop making goady threads for absolutely no reason. I hope purposely upsetting people helps you sleep at night.[/quote]
@lynntheyresexpeople

who are YOU to tell people to ignore an issue that hurts so many people.

You can choose not to get involved - babies born through surrogacy cannot. Be grateful for that, and stop making goady comments for absolutely no reason. I hope purposely upsetting people helps you sleep at night.

@Blossomtoes

Money and desperation clearly play an enormous part in these decisions

In every case? That’s clear in every surrogate birth? It’s quite obviously not the case with altruistic surrogacy.

So, not only do we deny women bodily autonomy when it suits them, but we infantilise them and tell them they can’t choose for themselves because they’re poor. This just gets worse.

This argument is bollocks and it's used to justify the sex trade, another trade in exploitation of largely poor women.

If a woman is only making a choice because she's so poor the alternative looks worse and she wouldn't make it otherwise, that's not a proper choice.

I don’t agree with it at all not even having a baby for someone else you love, actually especially having a baby for someone you love.

@HeartsAndClubs

As for your second point, I haven’t read these studies. However, I still feel that surrogate babies can have a loving and fulfilling life. Plus, you’re also being (by default) very disparaging about adoptive babies/families. it is important to recognise that removing a baby, any baby, from its mother at birth is going to be traumatic for that baby, even if that is for the purposes of adoption. The difference between adoption and surrogacy however is that the baby is removed for its own wellbeing and safety, and the adoptive parent has been put forward as someone who can provide that home for the baby. Acknowledging where the baby came from and the start they had in life isn’t being disparaging of adoption, it’s recognising the reasons behind adoption while still acknowledging the trauma which surrounds it.

Removing a surrogate baby from its mother at birth however is done purely for the benefit of the intended parents, the people who feel that surrogacy is the only way they will have a child. It’s also important to recognise that many parents don’t want to go down the route of adoption precisely because they don’t feel they are equipped to deal with a child with severe emotional and attachment issues, but are quite happy to do the same to a newborn which has been produced to order.

In essence, adoption is done for the benefit of the child, surrogacy is done for the benefit of the adult.

This is bang on

Couldn’t agree more

who are YOU to create a thread for your own enjoyment, when you are more than aware it will hurt so many people.

What a strange world you live in where you think that raising a topical, and extremely relevant issue is about people’s enjoyment. Perhaps the OP (and myself and many others on this thread) don’t enjoy the prospect of women being exploited for the benefit of others.

You still managed what so many cannot.

And? Not being able to have a baby doesn’t entitle anyone to exploit someone else for their own benefit.

Be grateful for that, and stop making goady threads for absolutely no reason.

And again, just because someone can’t have a child, doesn’t mean there aren’t good reasons why surrogacy shouldn’t be discussed.

I hope purposely upsetting people helps you sleep at night.

Perhaps if you’re so upset by a thread you should think about whether the internet is the best place for you. Or maybe you should use the hide function so that you’re not upset by it.

I have to say that all this insistence from some that because they couldn’t have a baby nobody should be allowed to question whether the commodification of human beings is acceptable makes me lose a lot of sympathy for some of the infertile.

Not those who recognise the pitfalls and who wouldn’t enter down the route of surrogacy, but those who accuse people of daring to question the practice of being goadie/deliberately hurtful. It’s as if they feel that infertility gives them the right to barge everything and everyone out of the way just so they can get what they want. It’s not an attractive trait.

Completely correct heartsandclubs,
‘In essence, adoption is done for the benefit of the child, surrogacy is done for the benefit of the adult.’

Any type of surrogacy is wrong, whether for money or ‘altruistic’. The baby’s needs barely feature in surrogacy. And for people saying this thread is hurtful, that’s just ridiculous, I’m tired of the attitude these days that because some people may get hurt feelings, subjects should be closed. No thanks.

Surrogacy should be banned. No one is entitled to a child. If you can't have children, you can't have children. Find something else to do with your life.

To those people saying "I don't think it harms the baby" - it doesn't matter what you think. It has been proven it harms the baby.

I have to say that I find the idea that a life can be bought or procured in this manner extremely disturbing

It annoys me that people don't go for adoption over surrogacy.

But our neighbours (male married couple) have a daughter born through surrogacy (in Russia where one of the dads is from) and they are such a lovely family and great parents

Oh aye, and I daresay the surrogate mum was wealthy.

Oh wait.

@DontStepOnTheMomeRathz

My sister had fertility issues. I’d have been a surrogate for her in a heartbeat. But my husband and my mum were so against it. Husband was concerned about the health risks, the potential impact on our young children etc. My mum just thought it was all too close and too weird.

She’s pregnant now, finally, through IVF. But I feel like I could have saved her from that.

Saved her from having her own pregnancy? So arrogant

@HoboSexualOnslow

It annoys me that people don't go for adoption over surrogacy.

I don't think people can comment on that. Not all surrogate parents would even consider adoption.

Some parents may feel they want a baby that is genetically theirs. Others feel they don't want the issues that come with adoption, children with attachments issues who were neglected in the early stages. Very few babies come up for adoption in the UK.

A quote from Banardos "too old at 4"
A high percentage of children looking for adoptive families are older than 4, few people will take children 4 or older.

I had ivf, I found it a brutal process.
I actually couldn't face doing it more than once.

But it isn't right to ask a newborn baby to undergo a trauma at birth of being removed from their mother to spare another adult the stress of ivf.

An individual child may have the resilience that means they're not significantly impacted by this longer term.
But we shouldn't push our stress and challenges downwards onto new born children we need to own it and manage it ourselves as responsible adults.

@spicedappledonuts how is surrogacy avoiding IVF, I'd have thought the majority of surrogate births are an extension of IVF.
You've hardly got a gay man, servicing a woman, to get her pregnant.

In particular @Lockdownbear
I was responding to this

• DontStepOnTheMomeRathz My sister had fertility issues. I’d have been a surrogate for her in a heartbeat. But my husband and my mum were so against it. Husband was concerned about the health risks, the potential impact on our young children etc. My mum just thought it was all too close and too weird.

She’s pregnant now, finally, through IVF. But I feel like I could have saved her from that.*

A wide range of people use surrogates.

Some parents may feel they want a baby that is genetically theirs. Others feel they don't want the issues that come with adoption, children with attachments issues who were neglected in the early stages. Very few babies come up for adoption in the UK. I agree with this, but it’s interesting that parents who go for surrogacy are perfectly comfortable doing to a baby, ie.removing it from its parent, for their own gain and yet they shy away from adoption because many children have the attachment issues they are potentially helping to create in their own biological child born of surrogacy.

@spicedappledonuts ah, I didn't really understand the thought process either. Didn't make any sense, how was she going to get pregnant as a surrogate other than IVF or IUI which I found more stressful than IVF.

@HeartsAndClubs
I think what I was trying to say is the difference is a newborn hasn't bonded with anyone or been neglected. And it may have genetic links to the parents.
A unfortunate child in the system will have been damaged by their early years, no cuddles, possible drug or alcohol abuse, moving around between home and Foster care. That all causes a very different level of damage to being removed once.

It's human trafficking & it should be illegal.

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]Surrogacy: What You Need To Know. Interview explaining why surrogacy is exploitative with Lexi from Stop Surrogacy Now and Jan Williams from Object!

[/quote] Having just watched that and seen the back end of this thread it's interesting that what was said about the comparison of surrogate babies and adopted children this is exactly what is playing out here...alongside a comparison with abortion.

It's always the same on surrogacy threads, I can see why Lexi says she wants to concentrate on this one group of people, because so often we end up having to deflect arguments about totally unrelated topics.

Also I found it interesting that the term 'reproductive rights' is now being conflated with a right to a child through surrogacy when it originated from laws around abortion and a woman's right to choose. It's almost as if it's a deliberate distraction.

It's the same old same old, no wonder we leave the lobbying of law reform to those who can focus, the surrogacy agencies aren't in the least bit interested in abortion or women's rights, I agree with Jan who said there's big business behind this, it's all about the money. I'm glad to see these two women doing something, someone has to.

Here is Perez Hilton saying he will simply pay for therapy for his kids if they grow up with emotional pain from not knowing their mother/s (children born by different women but the same woman who donated her eggs, though he didn't secure them all for himself so that either very generous of him not to put all her eggs in his basket, or reckless as his children will have numerous half siblings they won't know unless they come to find them later in life.)

Also interesting that he wanted genetic children as his Dad died when he was young and wanted his Dad's DNA to live on in his children but that same logic doesn't apply to the other half of his children's DNA.

It is true that a child removed from a home after abusive incidents will have experienced more trauma than a new born removed as a baby.

But babies are sometimes removed at birth and it is recognized by everyone doing this that this is a trauma.
It is only done in extreme situations to protect the baby.

Deliberately creating a situation where you are going to inflict this trauma on a child to meet the needs of adults is a child protection issue.

Adults should not create situations which damage children to get their own emotional needs met.