To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

[backoffice]

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

I commend your desire to support those of us who are ‘doing our bit’ for the planet. Some of these comments are from people who have selfish motives and to be honest don’t sound very bright. Keep going!! YANBU

[quote backoffice]@Mybalconyiscracking why the need to be so rude?

I genuinely thought that most people were actively trying to reduce their carbon footprint and worried about climate change. I’m surprised so many people don’t want to take action. Especially if you have children.[/quote]
I don't think this is being rude. On the one hand we are constantly being told that the earth is dying owing to humankind's recklessness and that all our children are going to be inhabiting a dead planet, on the other hand we have people on a site called "Mumsnet" for goodness' sake, saying how flying is fine and that, laughably, you can PAY to offset your carbon footprint.
No amount of money will undo pollution, just line pockets of people who talk a good talk.

@Birdcloud

I commend your desire to support those of us who are ‘doing our bit’ for the planet. Some of these comments are from people who have selfish motives and to be honest don’t sound very bright. Keep going!! YANBU

I know! Selfishes motives and unprotected sex are just a deadly combo for the planet

Brittany ferries are putting effort into reducing the footprint of their ferry services and i love it as a mode of transport - ferry to Santander is lovely. impact driving at the other end depends on your on vehicle ...

brittanyferriesnewsroom.com/two-new-hybrid-ships-for-brittany-ferries-uk-france-operations/

I found having children went hand in hand with cutting down on flights. I've taken 14 individual flights in my life (aged 50's now). 8 flights were pre-children and within a span of 6 years. Since having DC almost 25 years ago have only flown 6 times (two holidays there and back and one business trip). The bother of packing, airport parking, wrangling children at the airport etc just made UK holidays a better bet. If it has less environmental impact too, all to the good!

I always thought would like to see more of the world when retired but like the OP am beginning to think this is unethical. Possibly will research impact of flights taken so far and whether I have any 'climate budget' left'.

@Hopdathelf

Why the biscuit?

No justifying needed we went to Tenerife for a week in the Summer hols, did our due diligence paid for all tests needed did all paper work needed and went and enjoyed our time. No guilt at all

Respect to you OP.

I’m, sure once covid is in general circulation, you’ll feel better about taking trains.

They hire donkeys somewhere in the South beaches of Kent.
Do your bit of environmental responsibly and travel on one of them or how about bikes ?
So so many hard choices 😖 what a tedious life .

Won't do it whilst there is medical apartheid. I will stand by my principles.
It's the only reason why we cancelled our hols abroad this year - we went last year with no probs whatsoever.

I’d be more worried that I’m going into a country where far fewer people have been vaccinated and could be working in my hotel

Being completely shallow and selfish is apparently something to boast about.
Wish there were more like you, OP.

I agree with you OP. I despair at some of these posts.

@Sunndown

Being completely shallow and selfish is apparently something to boast about. Wish there were more like you, OP.

I absolutely love all the manipulative, childish passive aggression.

"Anyone who doesn't do things exactly as I do them is a selfish idiot who just doesn't care!"

@DynamoKev

YABU - air quality in planes is shocking compared with trains.

@DynamoKev (nice name!) On planes the air filters are HEPA standard, i.e. they filter out viruses. The air filters on trains only filter out dust etc.

There’s a lot of self justification for air travel which is worrying - meanwhile extreme weather, associated ‘natural’ disasters and other evidence of destructive climate change being glossed over.
In the last 10 years have taken 3 flights, none for a holiday. Just because I do other things like take public transport makes no difference, I’m still one less person on a plane.

Also don’t agree air quality or Covid risk is less than trains OP.

I’ll make as many lifestyle changes as possible but won’t compromise on air travel - it’s the only way to see our families.

@Blueink

There’s a lot of self justification for air travel which is worrying - meanwhile extreme weather, associated ‘natural’ disasters and other evidence of destructive climate change being glossed over. In the last 10 years have taken 3 flights, none for a holiday. Just because I do other things like take public transport makes no difference, I’m still one less person on a plane. Also don’t agree air quality or Covid risk is less than trains OP.

How is it being glossed over?

The point you're missing is that air travel isn't the only contributor to climate change. Giving up meat for just one year saves the equivalent CO2 as flying from Europe to Dubai. Someone lecturing others about air travel while happily eating meat, driving a car everywhere and choosing to have children is just being a hypocrite - their own contribution to climate change is far, far bigger than someone like me who goes abroad by plane once a year or so and is otherwise extremely eco conscious.

Some people have family and friends abroad or other compelling reasons to fly. Some people really rely on travel and seeing new places for their mental health. Why should they have to give that up when others cause far more damage through their everyday choices? What's OP's self justification for having children, eating meat or driving a car? I don't do any of those things and I'm not calling her selfish and irresponsible for making different choices.

Hi Rozziie, I don’t think it’s helpful to justify one harmful choice because of other choices, and agree you are right to challenge anything else that impacts climate change. As you saw I have been on planes for similar reasons, about 1 every 3 years.

I have family abroad, but that fact is itself caused by the changes in technology, expectations, lifestyles etc. that have got us into this position of draining the planet's resources like leeches. I was able to move abroad for work very easily and cheaply, whereas generations before me could not have dreamed of it.

We're not going to voluntarily return to the days before the Industrial Revolution really kicked in, when a trip to Weston Supermare on a cart was what people relied on to improve their mental health. But that is basically what's required really - or something with an equivalent effect, such as us inventing a whole new way of producing and storing energy.

Until then, we're all environmental sinners, and the tiny things we do to compensate for it, while still also worthwhile IMO, are a drop in the ocean. None of us should be feeling superior to anyone else.

No children so given that I haven't produced that particular climate catastrophe that's a lot of air travel I get to do instead.

Being flippant. Honestlt I don't think about it much, I suspect it'll all be made much more difficult soon through higher taxes or other measures so enjoying it while I can.

Some of us with family abroad don’t have any choice but to fly or take absurdly long car journeys if we want to see them. The train doesn’t always get you where you want to go.
I would like to think I have made an impact in other ways by using cloth nappies and wipes on my child (he has now toilet trained at age 2 and 3/4 so even these are no longer needed). I also use a Mooncup rather than tampons and soap bars rather than anything from a plastic bottle.
Ultimately you can’t just judge people for flying as you don’t know what other choices they have made elsewhere in their lives to help redress the balance.

Oh, and we only have one car and driving is our last resort (that 12-hour+ car journey to see my in-laws 2-3 times a year!). We walk and take public transport and bike for everything else. The U.K. is incredibly car centric and that IMO is the #1 thing that needs to change first.

I like how op who will be around middle 40-50-60 taking into her 3 children are adults has had enough of traveling so is now criticising what others are doing .. which is exactly the same things she's done in life... it's ok for her to do it as she's got an excuse... not the rest, the rest of us are selfish that dont care about the world we're leaving to her kids

The U.K. is incredibly car centric and that IMO is the #1 thing that needs to change first.

I wouldn't want to get rid of my car as I like it too much but I agree with you about the UK being car centric.

I work 4 miles from home and it's a 15-20 minute drive, but about 90 minutes by public transport. Cycling or walking isn't really an option as one route is busy but the roads are winding and badly lit with no pavements. The other route is a lonely towpath and I wouldn't feel safe. There's no way I'm doing any of that so car it is.