To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

[backoffice]

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

Marcee-most people ‘preaching’ about it are young and concerned for the future generations.

@seaandsandcastles

YABU. I’m justifying it in four simple words: because I want to.

So you're a selfish git fiddling while Rome burns. And you show off about it. Fuck the next generation, eh? Except that unless you're ancient your generation will feel some of the impact.

Op - I don't think trains are so risky, especially short distance and assuming you're vaccinated. Why not get the train to France and then stay in one place, doing short day trips by train or bus?

Yanbu to avoid flying - we all should.

But I think Yabu about trains. Inter-European rail is great and there can’t be a greater risk from covid than any other indoor location. The windows usually open and for night trains you can book your own compartment.

We’ve been in climate crisis since the 1980s with news about it plastered for everyone to see, it’s just that most people have actively chosen not to see it until it has become a trend and even then all most people do is talk or a slight nod to environmental issues.

We pay ourselves on the back for using less plastic or moving to paper straws yet these things do absolutely nothing nothing nothing to actually help the environment, it like sticking a plaster on a Heart attack patient, yet at any point in the last 50 years we knew about this and at any point we could have done something, well it’s too late.

The only thing that diverts us is actually we talk about the planet but in millennia that planet will recover, they should actually talk about we are causing our children’s extinction

I'm going on holiday next month to a foreign country that's green. I'm double jabbed, I'll wear a mask, use hand sanitizer and I'll take a covid test before and afterwards. I've been careful the past 18 months, I don't anticipate I would catch it now if I just continue to do what I've been doing all along. I don't see it as any different to getting a train or a busy bus.

I feel the same OP. I have young children and worry so much about their future planet. But it is heartening to see so many young people taking an interest in climate change. I've got a toddler so we haven't travelled abroad since 2018, and when we do we'll certainly be looking at alternative travel plans. But sometimes you just need to take an aeroplane. I think you can just do your best and limit air travel, but don't beat yourself up too much if you do have to fly occasionally.

I've never flown, I don't see the appeal. I have made active changes to reduce my impact. I decided to cloth nappy and my son refuses to wear anything else. I made him cloth wipes myself with damaged towels. If everyone makes 1 change then we all make an impact. If only a few people make multiple changes there's still an impact. Don't be disheartened OP. There's already at least 4 people you know who have made changes and I'm sure that there are others out there too. I even make ecobricks in the hopes that one day they'll allow us to use them to build houses

@crackofdoom

Wow, the gratuitously bitchy replies are really coming out here.

Anyone would think you’ve touched a nerve here, and people are getting defensive because the truth hurts. Oh, but it’s OK to fly because they recycle their plastic or use a keep cup or something. Of course it is…😆

I also use reusable glass bottle for water.

Hth

If everyone makes 1 change then we all make an impact. If only a few people make multiple changes there's still an impact

I dare to say that nearly everyone made 1 change. It's nust not the same change

So you're a selfish git fiddling while Rome burns

A thread about flying holidays.

I ❤ mumsnet so fucking much 😁

Oh I hope Rome won't burn. It's on my list next year

@Annoyedanddissapointed

Oh I hope Rome won't burn. It's on my list next year

Great choice! Amazing city.

Let us know how the trip goes!

I heard it's great. Just keeping eye on Easyjet sales

@Plumtree391
Don’t GAS
=Don’t give a shit

@Rozziie
Several upthread have admitted they don’t GAS

It's a bit like when some were demanding the pubs were closed last winter. Those who didn't use/work in pubs were all for it. Same as those who don't want to / can't afford to travel demand that everyone else follows suit to 'save the planet' 🙄

My only justification is that I want to travel, I want to go away for warmer and drier weather (it makes my joints much improved.)

I always pay the offset amount - I know it's not much but it makes me feel a little better.

We do other small things at home - we have one child (albeit not through choice), I don't eat meat, we have electric cars, we recycle, we reduce our single use plastic (have soap/shampoo/conditioner bars rather than bottles, no bottled water, have toothpaste tabs rather than plastic tubes, etc) etc - just small bits along the way.

But I'm afraid whilst ever holidays abroad by place are a thing - unlikely for them not to be in my lifetime - then I will continue to do so.

Tbh, I doubt people taking the odd holiday flight abroad is anywhere near as big an issue as companies flying across the world for meetings, often in first/business class, often as much as weekly,or private jets transporting just a handful of passengers at time.

@chocolatesaltyballs22

It's a bit like when some were demanding the pubs were closed last winter. Those who didn't use/work in pubs were all for it. Same as those who don't want to / can't afford to travel demand that everyone else follows suit to 'save the planet' 🙄

Yes, that's exactly what it's like.

Anyone who has the nerve to do something they don't do is 'selfish', while they congratulate themselves for not doing things they didn't actually want to do.

@Annoyedanddissapointed

I heard it's great. Just keeping eye on Easyjet sales

Hopefully you'll get a bargain, and might be a great time to visit Rome without the crowds. Lucky you!

[quote Frazzled2207]@Plumtree391
Don’t GAS
=Don’t give a shit[/quote]
Thanks Frazzled.

@Sunndown

Op - I don't think trains are so risky, especially short distance and assuming you're vaccinated. Why not get the train to France and then stay in one place, doing short day trips by train or bus?

I hate Eurostar. It doesn't matter though, I won't be going on one again.

@DeborahAnnabel

I went abroad 3 times this summer. Going abroad at October half term, at Christmas and at Easter. I love going abroad. A global pandemic isn’t going to stop me. Haven’t considered it unethical. If anything it generates income in the countries we visit so push comes to shove, I’d say it’s more ethical than unethical. I can afford all the tests etc but I do feel sorry for people for whom the cost of testing is prohibitive.

I think you’re missing the point, op’s dilemma is an environmental issue.

@chocolatesaltyballs22

It's a bit like when some were demanding the pubs were closed last winter. Those who didn't use/work in pubs were all for it. Same as those who don't want to / can't afford to travel demand that everyone else follows suit to 'save the planet' 🙄

100% this.

OP is actually worried about Covid, so she doesn't really want to travel and is dressing it up as 'I'm not going to fly because I'm so virtuous, and those of you who still want to fly are selfish'.

Climate change and its causes have been known about for decades now. Anyone who was genuinely concerned about it would have stopped flying long, long ago.

Oh, but it’s OK to fly because they recycle their plastic or use a keep cup or something

Some of us don't even buy bottled water, or any other plastic drinks bottles at all for that matter.

To add to my list from upthread, I drink mostly tea, tap water, a couple of G&Ts a week (gin in a glass bottle, tonic in cans) and that's about it. Some people buy all manner of pop, bottled water, cordial, energy drinks daily.

I'm not going to fall over myself to further reduce my already tiny natural usage when many people are using 2/5/10x more than I do.