To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

[backoffice]

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

Ok well whatever I say, I am being told I’m being manipulative so not sure what I can say about that.

Front page of the Guardian says 4/10 young people don’t want children because of the climate crisis and 6/10 are extremely worried and feel let down by older generations. So I don’t think my dc are that unusual.

@Mrbob I know... I feel like I must be living in a Guardianista echo chamber.

@BarbaraofSeville

I hope none of these 'young people' who are banging on about the climate are the same ones who left tents and a load of other rubbish behind at festivals or indulge in fast fashion, disposing of clothes after only a few wears. Or wear something for a couple of hours and then dump it on their bedroom floor so it ends up being washed before it is worn again.

Or have all those tattoos and beauty treatments and a new phone every five minutes. Because that all looks very wasteful from where I'm standing.

I wear the few clothes I buy for years.

I don't buy appliances or technology unless it's to replace something that breaks.

I eat hardly any meat. I waste hardly any food. I generally don't buy prepared packaged food and drink like coffees etc.

I am child free.

I don't wash clothes after one wear, I don't use the tumble dryer apart from a few times in winter.

I don't use all the endless cleaning products, toiletries etc that many others do - what a lot of people buy seems ridiculously high compared with the amount I use.

So I refuse to feel guilty because I have (in normal times) maybe 3 short haul holiday flights a year. And if I did swap my one indulgence for a UK holiday, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate situation.

I feel the same.

I don't have kids. I don't drive. I rarely eat meat. I live a pretty modest lifestyle in general. But I do - or did - fly short-haul relatively often. I'm not going to feel bad about that, or be lectured by shit stirrers who think the occasional flight abroad is the only way in which anyone can add to their carbon footprint.

@Mrbob

Wow there are some awful people on this thread. I feel as you do OP- I have finally realised I really can’t be sad about climate change AND fly long haul repeatedly. It’s cognitive dissonance And I think you are a true arsehole if you decide to have children and then continue to fuck up their planet on purpose to the point that their children will probably die of issues related to climate change. That’s pretty hideous And to have the gall to be shitty to the OP. I guess guilt makes you act badly...

Take a look in the mirror.

Shaming people for wanting to fly abroad while having three children, eating meat, and undoubtedly doing many other things to harm the planet is hypocritical and preachy. OP has latched into one of many things that contribute to climate change and decided that because it's the easiest thing for her to give up, everyone else should also prioritise that.

I can't stand the holier than thou attitude from people who do plenty themselves to cause damage to the planet.

[quote backoffice]@Mrbob I know... I feel like I must be living in a Guardianista echo chamber.

[/quote]
People do care. But not everyone takes the same action as you. You care enough to give up air travel but you don't care enough to give up meat and dairy, you didn't care enough to have fewer children, you don't care enough to forego travel completely, not sure whether you care enough to spend money on reusable energy eg solar panels. I'd assume not as you didn't mention it.

Just because others have chosen to take different actions doesn't mean they don't care.

And I think you are a true arsehole if you decide to have children and then continue to fuck up their planet on purpose to the point that their children will probably die of issues related to climate change. That’s pretty hideous

I've chosen not to have children so I suppose that makes me an arsehole rather than a true arsehole

@backoffice yes, it seems like it.

I know lots of your sort...love to boast on social media about how eco conscious they are and how much they care about the planet and people in poor countries, while going out every weekend and consuming class A drugs, drinking coffee from disposable cups, etc. I barely know anyone who calls themselves eco conscious who isn't a massive hypocrite.

BTW, I'm a Guardian reader myself and have been called a hippie many times. I live a very minimalist lifestyle, have been using Keep Cups etc. for years, using zero waste stores, buying only second hand. I cycle wherever possible and don't own a car. I'm just not arrogant enough to think everyone else should make the exact same choices as me. Prioritising some things over others doesn't mean you don't care.

@backoffice

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?

*trying so hard*

What does that actually involve OP?

* I genuinely thought most people thought air travel was a last-resort these days. *

Oh come off it op

Do you not read the papers? Listen to news? Talk to friends and colleagues?

It was a HUGE discussion point during ans post lockdown…. People planning their cancelled foreign holidays.

You are being very odd on this thread

You really made a post just to say this

@backoffice

Ok well whatever I say, I am being told I’m being manipulative so not sure what I can say about that.

Front page of the Guardian says 4/10 young people don’t want children because of the climate crisis and 6/10 are extremely worried and feel let down by older generations. So I don’t think my dc are that unusual.

I reckon identical stats from 30 years ago.

I can’t say I take young peoples views on whether or not they want children that seriously. Having children represents being a parent and having a shit-load of responsibility. Not exactly the most appealing image for a 14 year old boy!

@backoffice

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?

This really made me chuckle

@backoffice

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?

People didn't agree with you, so now you're suddenly not that concerned?

Your actions for your life and the environment shouldn't depend on what people on the Internet think. That's a bit weird.

The OP’s commitment to the environment I so tenuous that a group of anonymous mumsnet posters on a chat forum saying they will continue to go abroad…. Means that she’s now wondering why she bothers

@Marni83

The OP’s commitment to the environment I so tenuous that a group of anonymous mumsnet posters on a chat forum saying they will continue to go abroad…. Means that she’s now wondering why she bothers

I love that she's making out that she's made all this effort and sacrifice.

She hasn't gone on holiday in a couple of years because there's been a pandemic and it's too much faff, and pretending to care about climate change is an easy way to get some kudos without really doing anything. It's quite hilarious that she's going on as if she's dedicated her life to this cause.

I have a friend who really genuinely does dedicate her life to it, lives off-grid, zero waste lifestyle, never travels abroad, outdoor bucket showers, etc. and she is nowhere near as judgemental as OP.

For those that really don’t give a shit
This won’t make the news tonight because the media don’t really care about such issues.
But this is a picture of a regular motorway near a regular city in France. Today. Are you saying you still wouldn’t GAS if you were trapped in one or those cars?

twitter.com/bmay/status/1437774879659601923?s=21

How do I justify it? Easy! For my mental health, for my spirit, for the need of knowledge and culture. We fly twice a year and besides that we have 2-3 mini breaks around the country. Life is short and I want to see as much as possible of the world. And we're not rich, if we were I'd fly at least every month to a new destination.

[quote Frazzled2207]For those that really don’t give a shit
This won’t make the news tonight because the media don’t really care about such issues.
But this is a picture of a regular motorway near a regular city in France. Today. Are you saying you still wouldn’t GAS if you were trapped in one or those cars?

twitter.com/bmay/status/1437774879659601923?s=21[/quote]
Who is saying they don't give a shit?

[quote Frazzled2207]For those that really don’t give a shit
This won’t make the news tonight because the media don’t really care about such issues.
But this is a picture of a regular motorway near a regular city in France. Today. Are you saying you still wouldn’t GAS if you were trapped in one or those cars?

twitter.com/bmay/status/1437774879659601923?s=21[/quote]
And i wonder whether those impacted by the 1921 flooding in urban San Antonio would have been annoyed.

100 years ago.

I think you think you have nailed your point
Problem is… I can’t see what your point is!

I'd say that Frazzled was making the point that most people do get upset when they are actually involved in a major weather event, even if they don't find the prospect of such events too worrying in theory.

The number of such events is increasing, so it's becoming more and more likely that each of us will get involved in one.
www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/understanding-climate/uk-extreme-events-_heavy-rainfall-and-floods

I would not feel.guilty about a short trip on a plane.

What about a ferry.

Wow, the gratuitously bitchy replies are really coming out here.

Anyone would think you’ve touched a nerve here, and people are getting defensive because the truth hurts. Oh, but it’s OK to fly because they recycle their plastic or use a keep cup or something. Of course it is…😆

YABU - air quality in planes is shocking compared with trains.

[quote Frazzled2207]For those that really don’t give a shit
This won’t make the news tonight because the media don’t really care about such issues.
But this is a picture of a regular motorway near a regular city in France. Today. Are you saying you still wouldn’t GAS if you were trapped in one or those cars?

twitter.com/bmay/status/1437774879659601923?s=21[/quote]
You can't win whatever you do. What does GAS mean in that context?

@crackofdoom

Wow, the gratuitously bitchy replies are really coming out here.

Anyone would think you’ve touched a nerve here, and people are getting defensive because the truth hurts. Oh, but it’s OK to fly because they recycle their plastic or use a keep cup or something. Of course it is…😆

Or alternatively, it's OK to have children, eat meat, drive a car, put on the washing machine every day just because you don't get on an airplane once or twice a year?

It's all very similar to the Coronavirus discussions. People having a great time calling others 'selfish' because they do things they themselves don't want to do, while their chosen activities are, of course, purer than the driven snow.

In reality, very few people are prepared to make significant sacriices to their own lifestyles 'for the environment'. The OP being a case in point.