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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

480 replies

backoffice · 13/09/2021 13:53

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Original poster
backoffice · 14/09/2021 12:02

I have no idea why I’m being accused of being manipulative etc.

I genuinely thought most people thought air travel was a last-resort these days.

It doesn’t seem that it is. I was wildly off the mark. So no, it has made me wonder what’s the point of avoiding it, when the alternatives are such hard work.

OP posts:
DumplingsAndStew · 14/09/2021 12:03

Are you the same poster that was posting about Extinction Rebellion in the past few weeks?

Holskey · 14/09/2021 12:04

The answer is cleaner air travel. Not no air travel. Of course until that's available, flights will harm the environment, but I don't think it's necessarily any more selfish to fly than it is to eat meat, buy plastic, drive etc. etc. We all do many things that are harmful. It's literally how humans have configured life. Just living is bad for the environment.

Holskey · 14/09/2021 12:04

@backoffice

I have no idea why I’m being accused of being manipulative etc.

I genuinely thought most people thought air travel was a last-resort these days.

It doesn’t seem that it is. I was wildly off the mark. So no, it has made me wonder what’s the point of avoiding it, when the alternatives are such hard work.

Last resort? You thought that? Yeah, you were mistaken.
seaandsandcastles · 14/09/2021 12:05

@backoffice

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?
You should. Life is for living, not stressing about things you cannot change.

What will be will be.

Theluggage15 · 14/09/2021 12:05

You thought air travel was last resort?! I enjoy travelling and don’t feel required to justify it to anyone. Just do what you like, no one cares.

CyanideInTheFishPaste · 14/09/2021 12:06

I genuinely thought most people thought air travel was a last-resort these days.

If everyone in your peer group looks on air travel as something only to be done in emergencies I’d say that’s a very unusual group.

KingsleyShacklebolt · 14/09/2021 12:07

Sounds very much like the poster who couldn't imagine why people would ever criticise extinction rebellion.

CovidCorvid · 14/09/2021 12:12

I’m with you OP. I made the decision about a year before covid that I’d never fly again.

For holidays I’m happy enough to stay in the U.K. for now. Maybe I’d consider driving to France. I’d also be happy enough from a covid point of view taking a train so I think if you want to go inter railing then do it.

Original poster
backoffice · 14/09/2021 12:14

I’m not the extinction rebellion poster - haven’t seen that thread

OP posts:
Pikamoo · 14/09/2021 12:17

@backoffice

I have no idea why I’m being accused of being manipulative etc.

I genuinely thought most people thought air travel was a last-resort these days.

It doesn’t seem that it is. I was wildly off the mark. So no, it has made me wonder what’s the point of avoiding it, when the alternatives are such hard work.

Your behaviour is manipulative. First you say everyone must behave in the way you behave (ie prioritising cutting back on air travel rather than cutting back on meat). Then when people disagree with you your reaction is to say "fine, if you won't agree with me then I'll stop even bothering". So manipulative and childlike!
ilovesooty · 14/09/2021 12:19

@Mindyourbusiness22

If you want to stop climate change, stop reproducing.
Well I didn't reproduce, so if I want to fly I will do so. No amount of preaching from the OP will change that.
Jerseygirl12 · 14/09/2021 12:23

I have tiny fuel bills and a solar panel, I don’t tell everyone to stop using their tumble dryers.

Rozziie · 14/09/2021 12:24

@Pikamoo SO childish, isn't it? It's the way the tiny kids I used to tutor would behave. Transparent and manipulative.

IcedPurple · 14/09/2021 12:25

@backoffice

I’m surprised that so many of you aren’t worried by the ecological concerns. My teens are always on climate rallies etc which makes me feel even WORSE.

I do drive but minimise my driving and always take the train for longer journeys.

Do people really not care about climate change? It surprises me, especially with children. I want to do all I can to preserve their future.

I travel quite a lot for work, or rather I used to do until 19 months ago. I hope to do so again as soon as I can. Yes, there are environmental concerns, but unlike you, I don't have children. Having children is one of the worst things you can do regarding your carbon footprint.

So do I get to preach at you?

Dipsydoodlenoodle · 14/09/2021 12:27

How about, as a temporary solution; you do whatever feels safest until you feel safe about travel with Covid.

Then when you feel safe with normal travel, go back to the methods you used to use.

You can't avoid everything forever, so just go with a temporary solution whilst it's needed.

IcedPurple · 14/09/2021 12:30

Having kids isn't a reversible decision though. It's possible to have had kids over a decade ago and now want to do more for climate change and encourage others to do so. You can't tell people that they are more selfish than you for a decision made several years ago when they may now be trying to do something positive, such as limit their carbon output if you are making decisions every day that have a negative impact just because, for whatever reason, you don't have kids.

The thing is that people almost never want to make actual sacrifices 'for the environment'. They'll just ask others to do so. The poster added greatly to her carbon footprint by choosing to reproduce, and it seems she travelled quite a bit when it suited her. But now she's lecturing others?

Also, why is air travel always the boogeyman? Travelling economy class isn't ideal, but neither is it the worst thing you can do. Having children in a first world country is way worse. But people will do that because they want to, and preach at others for doing things which are important to them.

Mrbob · 14/09/2021 12:31

Wow there are some awful people on this thread. I feel as you do OP- I have finally realised I really can’t be sad about climate change AND fly long haul repeatedly. It’s cognitive dissonance
And I think you are a true arsehole if you decide to have children and then continue to fuck up their planet on purpose to the point that their children will probably die of issues related to climate change. That’s pretty hideous
And to have the gall to be shitty to the OP. I guess guilt makes you act badly...

Mrbob · 14/09/2021 12:32

Also I don’t have children but I am not such an evil bitch that I don’t care about other peoples so I will continue to do my best for them

Original poster
backoffice · 14/09/2021 12:33

I apologise that I have offended so many posters - as I said, I genuinely thought most people would feel the same.

OP posts:
Annoyedanddissapointed · 14/09/2021 12:36

No you didn't 😂

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 14/09/2021 12:37

For holidays I’m happy enough to stay in the U.K. for now. Maybe I’d consider driving to France. I’d also be happy enough from a covid point of view taking a train so I think if you want to go inter railing then do it.

I thought I was happy holidaying in the UK but a week in the cold pissing rain in May has put paid to that. We're staying in the UK this year but we've booked Corfu for next year and Florida the following year (moved from this year). The UK is beautiful and there's a lot more I want to see but it won't be my main holiday again if I can help it!

IcedPurple · 14/09/2021 12:40

@backoffice

I apologise that I have offended so many posters - as I said, I genuinely thought most people would feel the same.
Playing the faux naif is quite a poor tactic really.
Mrbob · 14/09/2021 12:41

@backoffice

I apologise that I have offended so many posters - as I said, I genuinely thought most people would feel the same.
I would have thought so too. Actually pretty shocked by the attitudes on here
BarbaraofSeville · 14/09/2021 12:41

I hope none of these 'young people' who are banging on about the climate are the same ones who left tents and a load of other rubbish behind at festivals or indulge in fast fashion, disposing of clothes after only a few wears. Or wear something for a couple of hours and then dump it on their bedroom floor so it ends up being washed before it is worn again.

Or have all those tattoos and beauty treatments and a new phone every five minutes. Because that all looks very wasteful from where I'm standing.

I wear the few clothes I buy for years.

I don't buy appliances or technology unless it's to replace something that breaks.

I eat hardly any meat. I waste hardly any food. I generally don't buy prepared packaged food and drink like coffees etc.

I am child free.

I don't wash clothes after one wear, I don't use the tumble dryer apart from a few times in winter.

I don't use all the endless cleaning products, toiletries etc that many others do - what a lot of people buy seems ridiculously high compared with the amount I use.

So I refuse to feel guilty because I have (in normal times) maybe 3 short haul holiday flights a year. And if I did swap my one indulgence for a UK holiday, it's not going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate situation.