Page 13 | To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

backoffice · 2021-09-13T12:53:00+00:00

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot! Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad! I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

ravenmum · 14/09/2021 10:39

This thread has already produced 1 KG of CO2.
How do you work that out, is it the time taken?
I had some Bitcoin without realising how bad that was, so I'm going to climate change hell anyway.

Marni83 · 14/09/2021 10:41

I don’t give a hoot!

I just didn’t want to be bothered by marketing emails

Me opting out had bugger all to do with the climate!!

Scottishskifun · 14/09/2021 10:46

But I get that most people would rather have fun than make changes, or just feel that individual change is futile.

Different people make different changes to reduce their own footprint, as pointed out a few times aviation is not the biggest contribution to climate change.
I improved the insulation on my house dramatically so I don't need as much heating which is a big contributor.

Rather than judging or lecturing why not accept that different people will do different things. All of it will contribute to help. If you want to stop flying then do so but don't villainise others or brush them off!

I always find it ironic when I watch climate change protestors filming on brand new iPhone which are power hungry, or they bring along a huge prop on the back of a lorry..... So many people just jump on the band wagon and don't actually understand how energy is created or how it works. It would be lovely for everything to be a natural renewable energy source (not biomass BTW which counts as "renewable" as its still burning!) The reality currently is that it can provide energy but there currently isn't a battery which isn't the size of a football pitch which is able to store true renewable energy for demand! They have been working on it for years and still currently not feasible.

CyanideInTheFishPaste · 14/09/2021 10:57

It's possible to have had kids over a decade ago and now want to do more for climate change and encourage others to do so.

Oh come on. Are people seriously claiming that the climate crisis has only come to light in the past decade?

Pikamoo · 14/09/2021 11:03

@Scottishskifun I agree with you totally, the attitude of some posters on this thread is awful. It's like they actively want to turn people off caring for the environment! I'm pretty sure you can get batteries for renewable energy though. My FIL's place is off grid with solar and he has a battery shed where the energy is stored (about the size of a garden shed). Our panels don't have batteries but we feed into the grid so that others can use our excess production which seems just as good.

grapewine · 14/09/2021 11:07

If you don't want to go abroad then don't. But bleating about how 'most people would rather have fun than make changes' is incredibly hypocritical coming from someone who has three children. You don't get to sit on your high horse.

This is so true, and yes, OP being passive-aggressive is highly irritating.

Rozziie · 14/09/2021 11:08

@SuperCaliFragalistic

*You had children. You've already done much more damage to the planet by doing that than I have by flying all over the world. If you actually cared about climate change, you would have made a meaningful sacrifice like not having a family rather than trying to appear woke by boasting about how you're not going to go abroad anymore.

If you don't want to go abroad then don't. But bleating about how 'most people would rather have fun than make changes' is incredibly hypocritical coming from someone who has three children. You don't get to sit on your high horse.*

Having kids isn't a reversible decision though. It's possible to have had kids over a decade ago and now want to do more for climate change and encourage others to do so. You can't tell people that they are more selfish than you for a decision made several years ago when they may now be trying to do something positive, such as limit their carbon output if you are making decisions every day that have a negative impact just because, for whatever reason, you don't have kids.

You think climate change is new? People were protesting about it long before I was born, and I'm in my thirties.

Anyone who was actually bothered would have made massive life changes long before now. I don't care what OP does, I do care about the sneering judgemental tone used towards other people, especially when those people are likely to have done far less damage to the planet than she already has.

Travel is my number one hobby and the thing that most helps my mental health. Before covid I would sacrifice almost everything to get to travel. Never had drinks/coffee out, never went to restaurants or bought new clothes. Every spare penny went to transport and accommodation so I could visit somewhere new. I'm not going to be made to feel bad about that by people who chose to have multiple children and probably drive cars everywhere.

Annoyedanddissapointed · 14/09/2021 11:08

@grapewine

If you don't want to go abroad then don't. But bleating about how 'most people would rather have fun than make changes' is incredibly hypocritical coming from someone who has three children. You don't get to sit on your high horse.

This is so true, and yes, OP being passive-aggressive is highly irritating.

That's exactly why so many people said "no"

grapewine · 14/09/2021 11:09

@CyanideInTheFishPaste

It's possible to have had kids over a decade ago and now want to do more for climate change and encourage others to do so.

Oh come on. Are people seriously claiming that the climate crisis has only come to light in the past decade?

This! That take is so disingenuous. I was in school in the 80s. It was an issue being taught then, too.

Original poster

backoffice · 14/09/2021 11:09

I’m sorry if I’m coming across as smug, passive aggressive or militant. I’m not at all. Reducing air travel just seems like such a no-brainier to me and an avoidable choice. I’m surprised this isn’t more widely considered a sensible choice.

I’m not vegan but I do spend a lot of time and money buying from local farmers and buy game where I can. We live in an area where this is not hard to do though.

I don't think I did realise the impact of children on the environment - particular as I said I’m the only person in my family to have children. It’s having teenagers that has really made me realise the impact of climate change.

OP posts:

Original poster

backoffice · 14/09/2021 11:13

People have literally said they are still flying because they want to have fun - I’m acknowledging this, not being passive aggressive.

OP posts:

Jerseygirl12 · 14/09/2021 11:13

You do sound hypocritical OP and judgey of how other people live their lives.

roarfeckingroarr · 14/09/2021 11:16

Nope. I travel when I want to. Life is too short to not see the world.

Rozziie · 14/09/2021 11:17

@backoffice

I’m sorry if I’m coming across as smug, passive aggressive or militant. I’m not at all. Reducing air travel just seems like such a no-brainier to me and an avoidable choice. I’m surprised this isn’t more widely considered a sensible choice.

I’m not vegan but I do spend a lot of time and money buying from local farmers and buy game where I can. We live in an area where this is not hard to do though.

I don't think I did realise the impact of children on the environment - particular as I said I’m the only person in my family to have children. It’s having teenagers that has really made me realise the impact of climate change.

So why say snippy, passive aggressive things like 'I guess people would rather have fun than care about the planet?'

I do care about the planet. I'm also not prepared to give up every single comfort and hobby in my life, including air travel. I do already try to take the train where possible and do other things to reduce my carbon footprint but no, I am not prepared to give up flying and make my life considerably worse. And given that I don't have kids, I'm not going to be shamed for that by someone who does.

mycatthinksshesatiger · 14/09/2021 11:17

Going vegan/mostly plant-based will do far more for the planet overall than cutting out a few plane trips (though obviously doing both would be even better):

Original poster

backoffice · 14/09/2021 11:29

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?

OP posts:

Pikamoo · 14/09/2021 11:36

@backoffice

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?

It's your attitude that's got you those responses. You eat meat, you choose not to fly, you have kids. Someone else might not eat meat, flies a couple of times a year and have fewer kids yet you think you're better than them because they haven't made the same choices you have? Banning flying is a no-brainer for you because that's what you've chosen to do. For a vegan maybe banning meat is the no brainer.

Pikamoo · 14/09/2021 11:37

*reducing, not banning.

Scottishskifun · 14/09/2021 11:38

[quote Pikamoo]@Scottishskifun I agree with you totally, the attitude of some posters on this thread is awful. It's like they actively want to turn people off caring for the environment! I'm pretty sure you can get batteries for renewable energy though. My FIL's place is off grid with solar and he has a battery shed where the energy is stored (about the size of a garden shed). Our panels don't have batteries but we feed into the grid so that others can use our excess production which seems just as good.[/quote]
Sorry should have been clearer I meant being able to store renewable energy on the grid basis its still very tricky. So the grid needs multiple sources for surge options. Ironically it's our love of tea which often causes a surge in demand in a advert break!

The size of a garden shed for one property creating energy shows the scale of what would be required for the grid. They are still trying though they are just massive!!!

Ozanj · 14/09/2021 11:39

I go because I want to. I don’t need to justify it to myself.

KingsleyShacklebolt · 14/09/2021 11:40

@backoffice

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?

You do you, OP, and stop worrying so much about other people's behaviour which you can't control.

Pikamoo · 14/09/2021 11:41

@Scottishskifun that's true actually. I don't know how many houses the average power plant supplies but yeah, that's a lot of garden sheds.

Scottishskifun · 14/09/2021 11:45

@backoffice

I’m sorry if I’m coming across as smug, passive aggressive or militant. I’m not at all. Reducing air travel just seems like such a no-brainier to me and an avoidable choice. I’m surprised this isn’t more widely considered a sensible choice.

I’m not vegan but I do spend a lot of time and money buying from local farmers and buy game where I can. We live in an area where this is not hard to do though.

I don't think I did realise the impact of children on the environment - particular as I said I’m the only person in my family to have children. It’s having teenagers that has really made me realise the impact of climate change.

😂 But in the same post you have done exactly the same thing. Judged others by what you wish to do by calling it a no brainer and the sensible choice...... Well to you maybe. To another it's going vegan but that's not everyones choice. Someone else improves home insulation and cycles to work again not possible for all. Someone doesn't send stuff to landfill and sources as much local seasonal food possible.

All of these contribute to reduction, all of these are choices people have made. Any reduction is good and encouraging that is beneficial but telling people that they should choose one reduction over another if it doesn't fit in with their life is pointless and judgemental.

Pikamoo · 14/09/2021 11:52

Are you this manipulative in all aspects of your life backoffice or is it only when it comes to lecturing about climate change?

Rozziie · 14/09/2021 11:58

@backoffice

Tbh, reflecting on the thread has made wonder why I bother. If these attitudes are so widespread on MN, it does feel that there isn’t much point trying so hard. Maybe I should just go back to travelling by air the way I used to?

Why you bother? Who do you think you are? Your attitude is awful. You're not trying any harder than me, or others. You're deciding to prioritise not travelling by plane. Someone else might prioritise eating only a vegetarian diet. Someone else might prioritise not having children. You're not better than anyone else on here. You had children because you wanted to and it makes you happy, I fly abroad because I want to and it makes me happy. Not sure what's so difficult.