to think "no woman aborts a baby lightly" is untrue and unhelpful?

[ZoeCM]

I've noticed this phrase being used a lot following the news about Texas. I'm pro-choice, and I don't think it helps our cause.

There are women who have abortions lightly. It's not a myth started by the Daily Mail. I don't even think it's necessarily even that rare.

There are women who actively want a baby in the near future, are in stable relationships, aren't even using contraception, but still decide to abort because the timing isn't 100% perfect: they don't want to cancel their holiday abroad, or give birth until the extension on their house is finished. Trust me, it happens. Does anyone really think those women agonised over whether the holiday/extension was more important than the baby, before painfully including that abortion was the only option? Of course not. And that's fine. Women shouldn't have to ask if their reasons for aborting are "good enough".

Then there are the women who are on their fifth or sixth abortion - workers at abortion clinics will confirm that this does happen. It seems unlikely that those women agonised over their decisions either, because presumably they would have put some long-term contraception in place to stop it happening again. I expect most of them come from pretty traumatic backgrounds, but that doesn't mean their decision to abort isn't made perfectly casually.

This phrase is a gift for pro-lifers, because it's so easily disproved: many of them will have stories about women they know who've had abortions without a second thought. A better argument would simply be that it doesn't matter why a woman wants an abortion: she should be allowed one because it's her body and her choice.

Ah oh yes contraception failed and blah blah blah

@Lexie365

I am a catholic and I am completely against abortion, it IS a baby and it IS murder but I don't think women are evil for having them I do however abortion is evil and I think society has been brainwashed into thinking it's ok, if you look back throughout history things that would happen that were considered "normal" that never would be now simply because it was the done thing back then and it was just something people were used too. An unborn baby has the right to life and my heart breaks for women who are seeking abortions because of rape, abuse etc but yes I still believe the child should be born. Of course it is horrible for children in care and a lot of the situations are heartbreaking but atleast they are alive and have the chance to have a good life, just like you wouldn't murder someone with a bad life because there life wasn't happy anyway.The few posters who disagree with abortion are being attacked on here which isnt fair we are all just giving our opinions. And for those saying so what? Mind your business! I believe abortion is murder and whether you agree with that or not would you mind your own business when its came to murder? Would it be upsetting or atleast make you uncomfortable if someone murdered some one and spoke so casually about it? I'm just trying to explain for those who genuinely don't understand why it would bother me or anyone else who is pro life.

It’s absolutely fine for you to be anti abortion, no one is forcing you to have one. People who are pro choice aren’t asking you to do anything. People who are pro life are asking people to give birth to babies that they do not want. To go through a pregnancy, a birth… It’s fine to not ever want an abortion. It isn’t fine to tell someone else what they must do with their bodies.

@Lexie365 Firstly what does your religion have to do with anything, other than perhaps it explains that you've been brainwashed? The Bible is supportive of abortion.

Secondly, it is NOT a baby. When most abortions are performed, there is no heart, no skeletal system, no brain stem, no sentience, no formed organs. What is evil is forcing a woman to risk her health in pregnancy and her life in childbirth. That is truly evil, and the catholic church in particular given all the damage it has done whether it be brainwashing people or abusing children, has no right to interfere in a woman's health and life. Abortion is healthcare, and always will be.

As i have said I am pro choice, i have had a termination myself but it doesnt stop me being affected by another person who appeared to not care. I sobbed and cried with distress when I had to make my choice. The person I dealt with who did indeed puff a joint out of the window while i carried away her tiny foetus at 19 weeks didnt appear to give a shit and used abortion as a form of contraception. I knew she came back as it was a small local hospital we worked in and I actually new her. It wasnt unusual to see young mums where I lived and the lack of information about contraception, morning after pill,etc was shocking, Boys being boys and taking no responsibility and girls being left with difficult decisions.

I am pro choice , i just have an issue when people use abortion as a form of contraception

I do personally find it very hard to understand not being bothered about it, and I find it very difficult to comprehend people who are lax with contraception and think 'oh it's fine, I'll just have an abortion'. Like I genuinely cannot imagine what goes on in someone's head to have that thought process. I do understand that contraception isn't foolproof and that sometimes accidents can happen, but I know people who just didn't bother using anything, and I just don't get it.

As I said before there is different circumstances and I can see your point. All of those are completely understandable.

My issue is with the girls that just have sex not worrying about contraception and just keep going back for abortions.

I am pro choice , i just have an issue when people use abortion as a form of contraception

As explained before, using abortion as a form of contraception isn’t possible, unless you misunderstand the meaning of the word contraception?

So does my body my choice extend to suicide then? You wouldn't try to stop someone who is trying to commit suicide then because their body their choice? Of course if someone is suicidal there is more than likely mental health problems or their life is just going really badly atm but isn't it ok for whatever reason? Like abortion?

@scarpa - yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. My moral opinions on the matter should not affect other people accessing abortions. However seems like there are some on the thread assumed otherwise. I've been told my opinions are of no importance, by people who are also spouting their own opinions, which is odd.

I don't judge any woman I know who has had an abortion. And I believe it should be available for all because otherwise how you police that when people who really should be using a condom come in for their 10th abortion? It shouldn't be policed because it would affect other women.

In the same vein I found out I had for example a 17 year old daughter who had already had multiple abortions because she didn't want to wear condoms. I'd feel quite differently about that and would have an opinion, which is stop creating new life and instead do something about the birth control. And yes I would wonder if I'd gone wrong as a mother if I had a child who kept doing that.

This is clearly a very complicated and deeply charged topic, You can feel and say things in theory that may not fit when put in practice. I'm not trying to trigger anyone with my opinion. I just think there is some value in a human life that isn't quite a human yet, so we should be as careful as we can be to deal with that responsibly. I think its a shit burden women bear and sometimes they just have to take the one option they feel is in front of them, regardless of others' opinions.

But I'd like people on this thread to stop telling others they're not allowed to have an opinion or feelings about abortion in general.

Many people think abortion is fine for incest and rape. Most people are also going to be rolling their eyes at women who get multiple abortions because it's their chosen method of contraception.

In my early 20s I went for a morning after pill after failed contraception. The male chemist told me off before he handed it over and said I should be on the pill, not using morning after pill. I thought what a jerk for years, and then I realised I could have created a new life that day that was flushed out me very quickly, and I wasn't prepared to think on that back then. Now I do, I am uncomfortable about it.

Apologies to all the thread nazi's who only find certain opinions or posts acceptable, if you don't like this, walk on by. No need to comment.

@Lexie365

So does my body my choice extend to suicide then? You wouldn't try to stop someone who is trying to commit suicide then because their body their choice? Of course if someone is suicidal there is more than likely mental health problems or their life is just going really badly atm but isn't it ok for whatever reason? Like abortion?

I didn’t have any mental health problems when I had an abortion, and my life wasn’t going badly. Going ahead with the pregnancy would have resulted in mental health problems and my life going badly though. You cannot equate suicide with abortion, because a foetus isn’t a sentient being.

@Lexie365 - I believe that your belief in Catholicism is because you’ve been brainwashed and as such your beliefs are just that beliefs and shouldn’t impact anyone but you.

Lexie365

If a person chooses to end their life they will get absolutely no judgement from me. My exes brother hanged himself. I dont blame or judge him for his actions.

The difference between prochoice and 'prolife' is pro choice people don't want to force people to have abortions, but 'pro life' people want to force people to have babies.

Your views should not have any bearing on my choice to have an abortion because my views don't have any bearing on your right not to have one.

And don't get me started on religious reasons for being against abortions, needless to say that these religions need to get their own houses in order before they start condemning everyone else about things that weren't even said in the bible anyway

FfrothiCoffi i know what you are saying. I may be conflating both issues but i do see it as a form of 'contraception' which i appreciate is to prevent pregnancy and abortion is aborting an actual pregnancy. But for me it feels one in the same when it becomes a frequent option. As for most of us who choose to have a termination it is usually once or twice not 'frequent'.

[quote DreamingofTimbuktu]@Lexie365 - I believe that your belief in Catholicism is because you’ve been brainwashed and as such your beliefs are just that beliefs and shouldn’t impact anyone but you.[/quote]
Exactly this.

I find it very difficult to comprehend people who are lax with contraception and think 'oh it's fine, I'll just have an abortion'.

^I agree

@HerRoyalRisesAgain
Who mentioned blame or judgement? I would'nt blame or judge anyone who committed suicide but I would try to stop someone from committing suicide if I could.

@drpet49

*I find it very difficult to comprehend people who are lax with contraception and think 'oh it's fine, I'll just have an abortion'.*

^I agree

Do you know anyone who thinks this?

Surely that's what is meant by 'choice'? Women are individuals and will make decisions based on their circumstances, their life experiences, their beliefs etc etc. These will be different for different women - some will agonise and find it incredibly hard, especially if in a situation where they could raise a child. For others it will be a complete no brainer. The whole point is that it's their body and their choice.

I've never heard admission talked about like this. Excellent thread OP.

but I would try to stop someone from committing suicide if I could.
Generally they don't go around announcing what they're about to do. Of course you can give them mental health support but ultimately its up to them what they do with their body, just as its up to women what they do with theirs.

And if they do think that, do you think it would be better all round if that person had the baby?

all FfrothiCoffi ok so what we mean is people who do not bother to use contraception either before having sex or emergency types like the morning after pill knowing that abortion will sort it out. I find that horrendous but it does not mean they should not have an abortion.

I realised I could have created a new life that day that was flushed out me very quickly, and I wasn't prepared to think on that back then. Now I do, I am uncomfortable about it

I take it you didn't read the leaflet that came with your pills then?

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

Abortion pushers you mean people who want themselves and others to have a choice?Unlike forced birthers who think a baby should be punishment for enjoying having a sex life.

If we think rationally, without getting emotive, I think PP meant people who insist others must be comfortable with every single conceivable abortion scenario, else you are a forced birthed/anti choicer/woman hater

For example, I don't think there's anything wrong with an abortion. It's nothing more than inducing a miscarriage - a young fetus being expelled, no pain. It could as easily happen in nature. But I'd be lying if a woman refusing to use contraception or even withdraw, and relying on abortion didn't make me uncomfortable. Same with sex selective abortion.

I don't think I'd say anything to them. Wouldn't want to limit abortion further. And I wouldn't necessarily call anyone an abortion pusher either. But people are allowed to have thoughts.